IMAGINE archive: collected off of Imagine@email.sp.paramax.com ARCHIVE XXXIV Mar. 10 '93 - Mar. 26 '93 If you have questions or problems with this file, email Marvin Landis at marvinl@amber.rc.arizona.edu note: each message seperated by a '##' &&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&& Subject: Cycles and Morphs... Date: Wed, 10 Mar 1993 17:14:32 -0500 From: Frank R. Dana Jr. Thanks for all the help, guys. I WAS trying to do something like a beating heart (a flickering jet of flame, same idea...) and don't relish the idea of having to put in transitions 30 or 40 times into some verrrry long stage listings - but it looks like I'll have to. Now, at least, I know to stop trying to get the cycle editor to do it. Now I've got ANOTHER problem. The flame jets are done using fogged-objects, and I figured the second best way to do this would be to have several jets in the scene, and use cycle to spin, shrink, and otherwise warp them - except when two FOGs overlap, they cancel each other out!!!! ARGH! Well, as my partner and I have been saying, "Maybe 3.0!" Thanks, Frank ## Subject: ftp of IML winners and TEXTURATOR Date: Wed, 10 Mar 93 19:13:16 EST From: Steve J. Lombardi I must have been zonked or something. where can I ftp the IML winners from. The recent Impulse newsletter mentions a feature of 3.0 known as texturator. Anyone care to start the rumor mill with info on what this is or better yet how about someone with actual knowledge divulging it's purpose. I heard that it's actually a texture server of sorts that accepts simple english like texture queries such as "Tiger with Herpes sores". Imagine responds by creating the appropriate algorithmic texture ready to be applied. sounds pretty intense. World of C= NYC. anyone going?? will impulse be there with their cool jpeg box?? DMI??? anyone??? I think I'll make the trip. If any other IML regulars are going it would be kind of neat to meet up to facilitate the attachment of faces to posts in the future. _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ | why would he be such a jerk? i know that he doesn't smoke steve lombardi | drugs. and he doesn't do cocaine. and he doesn't shoot stlombo@acm.rpi.edu | smack. and he doesn't even drink beer. Why would he be | such a fu*ker to me? --WEEN ## Subject: Sony VCR with "jog/shuttle"... Date: Wed, 10 Mar 93 16:32:03 -0800 From: smythe@cats.ucsc.edu Hello all, I have DCTV and have recently been experimenting with some long, complex animations that either 1) I don't have enough memory to play in RAM or 2) don't animate smoothly in the screen modes/colors that I want. (I'd like to play them in full 736x482 with 4 bitplanes.) These two factors have prompted me to investigate an inexpensive means of single frame recording. I've heard a bit about a (new?) Sony VCR with jog/shuttle in the $450 price range. Apparently with this VCR I could record 10 frames of picture #1, back up 9 frames, record 10 frames of picture #2, etc... I've also heard something about a controller that would automate this process (for the Amiga?). I would greatly appreciate *any* info on either or both of the above two products. Some specific questions I have 1) How is the quality of the final recording? 2) How does the auto-thingy work, if it exists for the Amiga? 3) How much does the auto-thingy cost, if it exists for the Amiga? I remember the Sony VCR being mentioned on this list about a week or so ago, I just don't remember who posted it... sorry. Thanks in advance for any and all information. ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ Brian M. Aljian // Only Amiga smythe@cats.ucsc.edu // makes it "Procrastinators do it tomorrow." \\// possible... ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ ## Subject: Re: Motion Blur Date: Wed, 10 Mar 93 17:56:24 EST From: Mark Thompson > > So depending on > > the degree of ant-aliasing, your total rendering time may take at > > least 2, 6, 10 times the original rendering time. > Of course it depends upon the method used but THE paper on the subject, > Distributed Ray Tracing, by Cook et all solves the problem without shooting > any more rays than what you have to to get decent antialising any way. None of the above was from my posts but since it relates to the post I just sent out....... I don't know how many rays Imagine currently shoots per pixel for an antialiased image but tracing 16 or more rays per pixel is pretty darned expensive at full video resolution. It is not only possible but quite likely that my estimates are not going to be dead on. It does not change the fact that such a feature will probably get little use from a serious animator. But I'm probably barking up the wrong tree because the typical Imagine user doesn't likely fall into that category anyway (the turnout for the IML contest animation category is certainly evidence of that). Sorry for rambling, I'm just frustrated. Maybe its getting about that time that I unsubscribe. Maybe join the "crotchedy old belly-aching complainers list". %~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~% % ` ' Mark Thompson CONCURRENT COMPUTER % % --==* RADIANT *==-- mark@westford.ccur.com Principal Graphics % % ' Image ` ...!uunet!masscomp!mark Hardware Architect % % Productions (508)392-2480 (603)424-1829 & General Nuisance % % % ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ ## Subject: Encoders -> S-VHS Date: 9 Mar 93 18:38:44 EST From: dyancey@xamiga.linet.org (Darrin Yancey) (Amiga Graphics BBS 516-473-6351) Has anyone found an encoder to turn 24 bit imagine images into S-VHS video for recording on tape? I tried a vip encoder but it did now work withe the firecracker. Any suggestions on how to do this? -- via Amiga Graphics BBS (516) 473-6351 -- UUCP xamiga.linet.org ## Subject: Re: Sony VCR with "jog/shuttle"... Date: Thu, 11 Mar 1993 02:49:51 -0500 (EST) From: Jason Andreas Tom Krehbiel just released Viewtek 1.04, it should be making it's way to an FTP site shortly. This new update has the ability to play Anim Op7 file (includes a utility to convert from Anim5 and Anim8 to Anim7!). The speed increase in playback is dramatic, especially if your running on a 4000. DCTV anims are quite useable now as an inexpensive replacement for more expensive hardware. Not quite exactly the same, but close. ## Subject: Animation with a 'Word' !!!! Date: Thu, 11 Mar 93 10:20:32 +0200 From: (Vincent FARGET) Hi, Is there somebody who can tell me the best way to do the follower animation : - I want to do a WORD turning around an object. I place an round close path for my letters. But when I tie my 6th letters to the path, they have got all the same place during the animation. So we can't read the Word. So what is the best way to do an animation like that ? Thanks very much in advance. Have a nice day. - FARGET Vincent - ******************************************************************* * AMIGA 2000B Rev 4.4 1 Mo Chip Ram et WB V2.05 * * + Controller 2090 Commodore + HD 42 Mo * ******************************************************************* ## Subject: Imagine 1.1 Date: Thu, 11 Mar 93 02:30:23 PST From: ua197@freenet.victoria.bc.ca (Christopher Stewart) Upon recieving my new A4000, I sat down. I then proceeded to install my software. Coffee on the left, ashtray on the shelf below the mouse (cigarettes help with the cycle editor ;-). I was all ready for my 250 (aprox) times speed increase when rendering (over my old 2000, unaccelerated, of course). Now, it seems to me (and feel free to correct me) that Imagine 1.1 dosen't recognize the FPU in the '040. Sure, it's faster, but not by near enough. I'd upgrade to 2.0 right now but I'm honestly quite broke. It's either 2.0 or a pair of speakers to get sound out of this box-O-wonder. I buy the speakers tomorrow. Any temporary fixes? Christopher -- This Way Lies Madness.......... Ua197@freenet.victoria.bc.ca (512k A1000, a TV and one floppy ;-). Fido: 1:340/43, 1:134/92 ## Subject: Imagine 1.1 stuff Date: Thu, 11 Mar 1993 13:21:19 -0500 From: "Christopher Stevenson" Greetings Yes, Christopher Stewart (Subject: Imagine 1.1) has a decent question. Yes, I still use a 1000 (running a 20MHz 020 and an 882), and Imagine 1.1 FP. I've always wondered if 1.1 FP was compiled for an '881 or an '882; any ideas out there? I'd upgrade to 2.0, or maybe even 3.0, but I'm poor and 1.1 fulfills most of my immediate hobbiest needs. Any information would be appreciated; I'm curious. Thanks The electric monk ## Subject: Re: Animation with a 'Word' !!!! Date: 11 Mar 93 12:43:14 CST6CDT From: "Mike Jiang" > - I want to do a WORD turning around an object. I place an round > close path for my letters. But when I tie my 6th letters to the path, they > have got all the same place during the animation. So we can't read the > Word. In the detail editor, make the word one object. That should solve the problem if your saying what I think your saying. Mike Jiang ---------------------------------------------------------------------- | "Cogito cogito ergo cogito sum." | email==> mjiang@gab.unt.edu | | "I think that I think, | or ij61@vaxb.acs.unt.edu | | therefore I think that I am." | | ---------------------------------------------------------------------- ## Subject: Re: Motion Blur Date: Thu, 11 Mar 93 16:19:49 CST From: setzer@ssd.comm.mot.com (Thomas Setzer) > > > So depending on > > > the degree of ant-aliasing, your total rendering time may take at > > > least 2, 6, 10 times the original rendering time. > > > Of course it depends upon the method used but THE paper on the subject, > > Distributed Ray Tracing, by Cook et all solves the problem without shooting > > any more rays than what you have to to get decent antialising any way. > > None of the above was from my posts but since it relates to the post > I just sent out....... > I don't know how many rays Imagine currently shoots per pixel for an > antialiased image but tracing 16 or more rays per pixel is pretty darned > expensive at full video resolution. > > It is not only possible but quite likely that my estimates are not going to > be dead on. It does not change the fact that such a feature will probably > get little use from a serious animator. But I'm probably barking up the Actually the serious animator *does* use these features. "Wally B" and "The Adventures of Andre", two popular animations from Lucasfilms use motion blur. Also, depth of field was used in the animations in Young Sherlock Holmes. These are just a few works by some *very* **serious** animators. These guys ain't amateurs. In "An Introducion to Ray Tracing", (an excellent book by a number of authors Cook, Glassner, Haines, Heckbert, Arvo, Kirk and Hanrahan, leaders in this stuff(actually this is the collection of notes from a Siggraph class by the same name, compiled into this book)) Robert L. Cook discusses distributed ray tracing. This method allows for a number of features, that I for one, would love to have and use. Blurry reflection, blurry transparency, penumbras, depth of field and motion blur can be accomplished. Unfortunatly, if Imagine isn't using stochastic sampling, they would have to add it, maybe an option like scan-line, or trace, another menu item. To quote Mr. Cook: "In addition to providing a solution to the aliasing problem, stochastic sampling also provides new capabilities for discrete algorithms such as ray tracing. The physical equations simulated in the rendering process involve integrals over time, lens area, specular reflection angle, etc. Image synthesis algorithms have usually avoided performing these integrals by resorting to crude approximations that assume instantaneous shutters, pinhole cameras, mirror or diffuse reflections, etc. But these integrals can be easily evaluated by stochastically sampling them, a process called Monte Carlo integration. In a ray tracing algorithm, this involves stochastically distributing the rays in time, lens area, reflection angle, etc. This is called probabilistic or distributed ray tracing." He mentions that this does indeed require "additional computation" and "a more sophisticated bounding calculation." But I started out doing ray tracing on an Amiga 2000 using Turbo Silver. I could wait then, I'll wait now for something that looks much better. Guess I'll have to(wait that is) :) Tom Setzer setzer@ssd.comm.mot.com "And of course, I'm a genius, so people are naturally drawn to my fiery intellect. Their admiration overwhelms their envy!" - Calvin ## Subject: Re: Animation with a 'Word' !!!! Date: Thu, 11 Mar 93 19:48:46 EST From: Steve J. Lombardi > > > - I want to do a WORD turning around an object. I place an round > > close path for my letters. But when I tie my 6th letters to the path, they > > have got all the same place during the animation. So we can't read the > > Word. > > In the detail editor, make the word one object. > That should solve the problem if your saying what I think your > saying. > > Making one object of the 6 letters is the best route if the path is the same shape as the object. like the universal globe. I once wanted multiple obj''s to follow a common path in succession where the path was a long S curve. I wanted each individual letter to follow the path keeping it's Y axis aligned to the path. the soulution is really simple. just add the path once for each object on succesive frames of the anim. the objects will move together as a unit and each is free to align itself. _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ | why would he be such a jerk? i know that he doesn't smoke steve lombardi | drugs. and he doesn't do cocaine. and he doesn't shoot stlombo@acm.rpi.edu | smack. and he doesn't even drink beer. Why would he be | such a fu*ker to me? --WEEN ## Subject: Imagine contest Date: 11 Mar 93 19:40:30 CST6CDT From: "Mike Jiang" hi, People have been talking about downloading pictures from the contest. Can someone please tell me what FTP site their on? Mike Jiang ---------------------------------------------------------------------- | "Cogito cogito ergo cogito sum." | email==> mjiang@gab.unt.edu | | "I think that I think, | or ij61@vaxb.acs.unt.edu | | therefore I think that I am." | | ---------------------------------------------------------------------- ## Subject: Re: Screwy action editor... Date: Thu, 11 Mar 93 12:05:34 CST From: mikel@inqmind.bison.mb.ca (Michael Linton) Yeah, I can live with it too. :) It is when you move right, and then down. And, it does clear up when you quit to another editor, which is what I end up doing (I seem to spend more time quitting the action editor to the project editor, than actually getting any work done. :) ------------------------------------------------------------------------ "...even the stuff you taught me, has been pushed back into the dark recesses of my mind... Need a candle or two (rendered of course, as my light source) to find all that buried info again..." -- Barb Hall on learning Imagine ## Subject: The IML Guide Date: Fri, 12 Mar 93 13:04:19 CST From: dave@ho.sp.paramax.com (Dave Wickard) The Imagine Mailing List Guide - ------------------------------------------------------------------- version 1.9 last updated 03/12/93 Welcome to the Imagine Mailing List. This Mailing List is a followup to Steve Worley's original Imagine Mailing List that he created at while at MIT. It is endorsed, supported and read by Steve and his company Apex Software Publishing, as well as Impulse Inc., and a host of other Imagine/image-processing related vendors and luminaries. This is a classy place. ;-) About Imagine -------------------- Imagine is a 3D modeling and rendering program with built-in animation capabilities that was initially released on the Amiga computer. It offers rendering and modeling capabilities that existed previously only on high-end machines at a cost far beyond what was reasonable for normal mortals. It is a product of Impulse Inc. which is located in Minnesota. Imagine was the natural evolution of an earlier Amiga product from Impulse called Turbo Silver. Both products have become standards in the creation of the impressive demos and animations that Amiga owners collect and use to demonstrate their computer. Now, with the recent release of Imagine-PC, Imagine users on the Amiga will have a new way to make use of their clones and take some of the renderload off of their Amiga. Imagine-PC should also bring many "clone drones" into the fold of the Imagine Mailing List. It now offers a way for the average MS-DOS user to get his/her hands on a reasonably priced, high-power entry into the world of 3D rendering. Imagine is a tool used by many video and computer professionals to enhance productions and give them a sheen unattainable only a few years ago. Your handling of 3D software can polish virtually any project from "adequate" to "awesome" regardless of what hardware platform that you are launching Imagine from. About This List ---------------------- The Imagine Mailing List was created in January 1991 by Steve Worley on a computer at MIT. For those of you not familiar with a Mailing List, it works like this: The Mailing List site contains a file of all the people who "subscribe" to the List. When you mail a post to this account at the Site, the Site computer merely echoes your post to everyone on that list. At this time, the IMList consists of over 400 subscribers! Some of these "subscribers" are actually networks or BBS's. That means that your post is echoed and is then viewed by thousands of people at computer sites reaching around the world! The purpose of the Imagine Mailing List is for the discussion of Imagine and related products. Since there are professionals from many fields reading the List, as well as first time users, not to mention those middle of the road semi-experienced types there is always someone at YOUR level of learning. You can either read along, or feel free to ask anything about your rendering experiences that are giving you trouble. There is NO bad question. There is NOTHING that is too elementary. Share your questions. We all will learn from it! Naturally, while Imagine is the main thrust of the List, topics can vary quite widely. 3D rendering in general, Imagine comparisons to other products, video applications and Imagine interfacing to other products are just a few of the subjects that have rumbled through here! :-) DCTV/Colorburst questions, Lightwave comparisons ("Ask Mark Thompson") removeable media drives (for large animations) reviews of Vista Pro (virtual landscapes in a box), and new product rumors, are a few more of the offshoot discussions. The single and cardinal rule of the IML is to treat your fellow readers and posters with the same respect you would appreciate accorded yourself. In other words, it's OK to reasonably and intelligently describe why one package or hardware platform is preferable for your use in a specific instance. It is NOT OK to blast or flame the large time and financial investments made by others in competing hardware and software products. There is a complete archive of the IML (well maintained by Marvin Landis). Currently, we are deciding where our new official archival site will be located. Prior to this, it was located on Hubcap, but due to piracy issues (not involving us, I must add for clarity's sake) the site was closed down. When we pick a new official site, the IML will be fully informed. The archives are still intact. In addition to these excerpts, there are always new Imagine related objects, scenes, animations and projects popping up. If you have a source for Imagine objects, renderings, gifs, etc. the List is a perfect place to share this kind of information! Active? You bet. There are usually several posts a day, so be certain to check your mail...or the List where you read it. If you don't, this thing can really get away from you. Compuserve users in particular should keep up to date. CI$ only allows a user a very limited mailbox size. This mailbox will flow over quite quickly and begin generating errors on the List that are both unnecessary mail traffic...and an annoyance to those who post. This is a good thing for all List members to watch though, be certain that if you have any limitations on mail reception, that you keep your mailbox emptied out so that you don't accidentally get removed from the List for error generation. Keep an eye out for subject matter that maybe of specific interest to you since your question may already have been answered. According to Steve Worley, the highest volume traffic is the question, "When I try to view things in scanline, everything looks great...but when I try to render it in raytrace, some things simply don't show. Why is this happening?" A FAQ (frequently asked questions) list is currently under construction, and hopefully will be completed in the near future and posted periodically to the IML. Also posted periodically, is the complete IML membership list. This gives people a chance to see who's who... or be able to easily refer to someone privately if they care to discuss something in depth at a later date. Users will find it handy to occassionally check this "IML Directory" and verify that their own name/account information is correct. If you would prefer not to be listed in this posting, please notify me, but I would prefer that everyone on the List be included. Also, suggestions about enhancing Imagine and bug reports are welcome. This List is posted at Portal and is read by at least one employee of Impulse .Your comments are seen by them. While I can't say you will get a personal response to a post, you ARE being read! And read by the people who matter, at that. All posts contained on the Imagine Mailing List are public domain and can be reposted on BBS's on networks or where ever you see fit. If you should want to post them somewhere...be sure to: 1. Include the original posters name and address. 2. Mention where the post is from and our address (i.e. The Imagine Mailing List imagine-request@email.sp.paramax.com) Feel free to let everyone know about the Imagine Mailing List and urge them to get involved, but please, please, please... ONLY publicize the address ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ imagine-request@email.sp.paramax.com There are several reasons for this. It keeps the "subscribe" and "unsubscribe" messages out of public view. Some people pay for access and are not interested in seeing the behind the scenes business going on at their expense. Also,I send out a test message to all sites before adding them to the List. This eliminates some of the clutter of bad addresses and hard to reach sites from being sent. Once they have responded to the test message, I immediately add them to the List. I check my mail several times every weekday, so nothing can sit for long in the mailbox. It all gets rolling within a very short period of time. By the same token, please attempt to let me know of any changes in your account status. It slows delivery of everyone's mail down if the system spends several days attempting to deliver mail to an account that no longer exists. It's general courtesy to the rest of the readers to be *certain* to notify me of a change in your account status. Posting to the List ----------------------------------- This is the really easy part. To have your question, comment or whatever, posted to the Imagine Mailing List...send it to imagine@email.sp.paramax.com |NOTE COMPUSERVE USERS..... | | the correct address for you to use is | | in THIS format: | | >INTERNET:imagine@email.sp.paramax.com | Your post may take up to two days to appear on the List. Don't panic. If it does NOT appear, please resubmit it after a couple days wait. Naturally you should keep a copy of your post as a backup in case you need to repost it. If you make several attempts and you cannot get your posting thru to the list, try using our emergency alternate address: imagine@shell.portal.com Only use this as a last resort for the time being though. IMPORTANT: If you do *not* want to see error messages- in the header of your post, include the line Errors-to: nobody@email.sp.paramax.com or Errors-to: /dev/null Naturally, this assumes you have header editing capabilities. To find out if you can edit headers in your mailing system...see your local system administrator. (also read Troubleshooting below) Subscribing,Unsubscribing And Address Change Procedures ---------------------------------------------------------- To receive the Imagine Mailing List...steaming hot and fresh in your Mailbox.... simply send your request to me at: imagine-request@email.sp.paramax.com |NOTE COMPUSERVE USERS..... | | the correct address for you to use is | | in THIS format: | | | | >INTERNET:imagine-request@email.sp.paramax.com | In your subject line...please have the word "subscribe" or "unsubscribe" Use this same address should you change addresses, machines, account numbers...or anything that might impede your receipt of the IML. Everyone thanks you for your prompt notification on any account changes. :-) Troubleshooting your Subscription to the List ---------------------------------------------------------------- After you submit an article to the List, you will receive it back from some area(s) you have never heard of before. It will appear at first, as if your posting "bounced". If this happens to you, don't be worried. You didn't do anything wrong, it is merely the "bounce" effect of a bad mailer at one of the sites on the List. It works like this: Your post is sent to every site kept on the master list. If there are any troubles during delivery to the IML, two people are notified of the failures. The first is the owner of the Mailing List (me). Secondly, the errors are sent back to the posts generating site (you). Just delete it and watch to make sure your post DID actually make it to the List. (You might want to avoid this by following the directions labeled "IMPORTANT:" under "Posting to the List" above.) If you see a problem that you think I should be made aware of... or if my description leaves you feeling muddleheaded, confused, and slightly nauseous and you'd like further clarification, feel free to email me about it. About the Creator of the List- Steve Worley ------------------------------------------------------------------------ Mr. Worley is a 3D kinda guy who is as familiar with the Imagine package from Impulse as virtually anyone you will find roaming free and allowed to drive. :-) An MIT graduate with a never-ending quest for that "perfect render", he is a contest-winning computer artist who has interest in 3D computer art crossing several product lines. He is responsible for the wildly successful and helpful book "Understanding Imagine 2.0 - A Complete Imagine Reference" and has co-authored with Glenn Lewis (another Imagine Mailing List member),the "Essence" textures product for Imagine from Apex Publishing. For information on these products, you can write to Apex at: APEX Software Publishing 405 El Camino Real Suite 121 Menlo Park, California 94025 USA Steve may be reached for personal mail at the following: Worley@cup.portal.com If you'd like to hear more about APEX's products, use the following address: spworley@netcom.com Steve is fairly prompt in his responses, so you shouldn't have to wait too long if he's available. About the List administrator ------------------------------------------- My name is Dave Wickard. I am a technician at Unisys Corporation working in the Defense Division called Paramax in Eagan Minnesota. I work as an Engineering Specialist in the maintenance organization that handles the hardware on CAD/CAM workstations. Mostly our systems consist of Apollos, HPs, Suns, Silicon Graphics,and Vax-based Applicons. This job has pretty much been my meal ticket for the last 12 years. I have been interested in Imagine ever since I started seeing the amazing ray traces generated by a friend with it's predecessor Turbo Silver. I have been an Amiga enthusiast since 1988 or so. I own an Amiga 2000 with about a gig of hard drive, a tape backup system, the PPS 040 (28Mhz) accelerator and 37 Meg of RAM and a Video Toaster. My tastes run in the line of Ren and Stimpy, Mystery Science Theater 3000, The Simpsons, the NFL ,CHEERS and alt.tasteless. Varied but stable subjects. At 36, I can clearly see where I have been and am remotely interested in where I am going. My hobbies include spending hundreds of hours shoveling my Minnesota driveway during our winter (Oct-April), reading (science fiction and horror mostly- King, Barker, Niven, Koontz, Chalker), telecomm (I have been/am an active member on many different networks), fishing (most any species, fly-in spring trip to Canada), photography, music (I have a large album and CD collection) and MIDI related topics. Any other questions may be addressed to me personally, to be perfectly frank, I love to write...and talk. Feel free to drop me a line anytime. In closing --------------------- Thank you for reading the Imagine Mailing List. If you have any questions regarding it...I am but a few keystrokes away. Feel free to contact me with any Imagine Mailing List questions at any or all of the addresses below and I will respond as quickly as possible, usually the same day as I receive it. If you have any Imagine questions...fire away! There are helpful and knowledgeable people here who can help. Dave Wickard (612)456-2783 "'And on your deathbed, you will receive dave@flip.sp.paramax.com total consciousness'... so I got that Sam_Malone@cup.portal.com going for me...which is nice." -Bill Murray dave@email.sp.paramax.com imagine-request@email.sp.paramax.com (for subscribes, unsubscribes, and questions) imagine@email.sp.paramax.com (for the List itself) ## Subject: DCTV Date: Fri, 12 Mar 1993 17:10:39 -0700 From: STEELE SHAWN CHARLES Hi, I know this isn't exactly an imagine topic, but does anyone know how the DCTV picture data is created. I'd like to mess with DCTV data on a pixel by pixel basis. Digital Creations has a library that converts entire scan lines at a time, but that's too high level for my purposes. I know any such information would be very complicated to use, my own experiments seem to indicate that DCTV uses some sort of 2-D HAM/delta waveform compression scheme that wouldn't be easy to use, but I'd like to try. (Of course, I could be wrong, I'm just guessing based on my observations, but you can REALLY mess up the NTSC signal by changing a few pizels.) shawn steele steele@ucsu.colorado.edu ## Subject: WOC NYC Date: Sat, 13 Mar 1993 01:31:24 -0500 From: Alex J. Scotti Just writing to say that I along with several members of the RPI Amiga Users group will be at the show. This will be my third (I think), and I look forward to hearing from the IML people and meeting up at the show. -Alex Scotti scotta4@rpi.edu ## Subject: Re: Objects Wanted Date: Fri, 12 Mar 93 10:06:27 GMT From: Imagine@bknight.jpr.com (Yury German) Hi Adam (Adam Benjamin), in <9303090801.A08802@mi04p.zds.com> on Mar 09 you wrote: : I was reading a Computer Graphics World (Feb issue) and in the back is : small add for a company called VIEWPOINT. They will send you a free : catalog with "hundreds" of 3D objects, I called them and they do : support Imagine objects. They are in UTAH, their number is: : 1-800-DATASET (1-800-328-2738) Don't know what they charge, but the : call and catalog is free. They charge from $50 the cheapest to $5000 for a full sceleton. The objects are good, very good but a tad overprised. The Imagine objects are not joined or grouped without any textures or attributes applied to them. _____________________________________________________________________ | | | Yury German Blue-Knight@bknight.jpr.com | | Blue-Knight Productions GENIE: Blue-Knight | | (718)321-0998 ** Graphic Design and Video Productions ** | |_____________________________________________________________________| ## Subject: Re: Cycles and Morphs... Date: Fri, 12 Mar 93 10:10:50 GMT From: Imagine@bknight.jpr.com (Yury German) Hi Frank (Frank R. Dana Jr.), in <9303102214.AA16986@localhost> on Mar 10 you wrote: : : Now I've got ANOTHER problem. The flame jets are done using fogged-objects, : and I figured the second best way to do this would be to have several jets : in the scene, and use cycle to spin, shrink, and otherwise warp them - except : when two FOGs overlap, they cancel each other out!!!! ARGH! : : Well, as my partner and I have been saying, What you need is Stve worley Essence! _____________________________________________________________________ | | | Yury German Blue-Knight@bknight.jpr.com | | Blue-Knight Productions GENIE: Blue-Knight | | (718)321-0998 ** Graphic Design and Video Productions ** | |_____________________________________________________________________| ## Subject: Re: Sony VCR with "jog/shuttle"... Date: Fri, 12 Mar 93 18:20:13 PST From: DonD@cup.portal.com > I've heard a bit about a (new?) Sony VCR with jog/shuttle in the >$450 price range. Apparently with this VCR I could record 10 frames of >picture #1, back up 9 frames, record 10 frames of picture #2, etc... >I've also heard something about a controller that would automate this >process (for the Amiga?). Not sure where you got that price from. The original AVID article used the Sony SLV-R5UC which sells for about $999.00 at your local Audio/Video superstor e. Key features to make this plan work are more than just jog/shuttle, you also need an Insert Edit Mode and a Flying Erase Head. A nice additional feature is Sony's RC TimeCode which gives you frame accurate positioning and a LANC or Control-L port for external control. The controller you heard about is the Sony V-Box which converts Sony's LANC port into an RS-232 serial port so you can send commands to the VCR using simple PRINT statements. >1) How is the quality of the final recording? >2) How does the auto-thingy work, if it exists for the Amiga? >3) How much does the auto-thingy cost, if it exists for the Amiga? When I used my Sony V801 camcorder to do manual-single-framing my final recording was perfect except for color flashing and minor "tearing" at the top of the video BUT I'm am 99% sure that both of these were caused by the cheap A520 RGB-NTSC converter I used and illegal NTSC colors, I should have my DCTV by next week and I may try manual single framing again soon, hopefully with excellent results. I believe Sony V-Boxes can be had for around $150.00 and several Amiga packages offer V-Box support. Since the V-Box is an RS-232 device it is "computer- independant" like modems and printers are. (PS I use the V801 camcorder because I couldn't talk the wife into a $1000.00 VCR, but a $1000.00 camcorder was Okay! The V801 has RC Time Code and frame- accurate positioning (just as good as jog/shuttle for this job). The V801 also has the LANC port so I could connect a V-Box to it if I ever do a LONG anim.) Don DeCosta DonD@cup.portal.com ## Subject: Re: Sony VCR with "jog/shuttle"... Date: Fri, 12 Mar 93 10:15:17 GMT From: Imagine@bknight.jpr.com (Yury German) Hi smythe (smythe), in <9303110032.AA11783@amtoo.ucsc.edu> on Mar 10 you wrote: : I've heard a bit about a (new?) Sony VCR with jog/shuttle in the : $450 price range. Apparently with this VCR I could record 10 frames of : picture #1, back up 9 frames, record 10 frames of picture #2, etc... : I've also heard something about a controller that would automate this : process (for the Amiga?). Well for $450 range you will not get any single frame vtr and what you describe is very hard to do. I would recomend a good single frame vtr or send it out to a single frame service. But if you are destined to do this only 3 VTR's in the $1400 range are good enough for what you describe. The SONY SLRV5U, Panasonic AG1960 or 1970. THere is also a GVC that I forgot the number which is pretty good as well. But none of them are single frame and will give you +-2 frames at best. _____________________________________________________________________ | | | Yury German Blue-Knight@bknight.jpr.com | | Blue-Knight Productions GENIE: Blue-Knight | | (718)321-0998 ** Graphic Design and Video Productions ** | |_____________________________________________________________________| ## Subject: imagine wants revisited Date: Sat, 13 Mar 1993 11:25:06 -0600 (CST) From: "Cyrus J Kalbrener-1" Now that everyone has settled down from my "Demand" for lens flare and motion blur, I have a new one for you : 68040 optimized code. In this months Video Taoster User there is a discussion about the new Light Wave and it's options. One of the theing mentioed is how they have optimized the code for the '040. This allows the math routines to run many times faster (someone help me here, I'm not a programming wiz). In the comparison they achieved a speed increase of about 11.5 TIMES the un accelerated code. That is some improvement. If depth of field and motion blur do take so long, then perhaps an '040 optimized version could help make up for the loss. Yes, I am making more comparisons between Imagine and Light Wave. If NewTek sold Light Wave as a stand-alone product I would buy it. One of the key reasons is that they work hard to please their customers. They know that their reputation is more likely to be at stake if the results of their product are going to be seen by a national audience. While Imagine is not attatched to a T.V. production studio-on-a-card, it does have to compete with a few products that are (Light Wave, Caligari). I just hope that Impulse puts out a really advanced product this time. Once again, regardless of what some of you may think about what I think is essential, Imagine MUST remain competatve. As it stands now, they are going to be playing catch up. More controlls over object shape and form are great, but the ultimate test is how well the final image or annimation comes out and how quickly and hassle free it is done. 'Nuff said. Cyrus J. Kalbrener ## Subject: Re: Objects Wanted Date: Sat, 13 Mar 93 09:19:54 PST From: Harv@cup.portal.com >Hi Adam (Adam Benjamin), in <9303090801.A08802@mi04p.zds.com> on Mar 09 you wr o >te: > >: I was reading a Computer Graphics World (Feb issue) and in the back is >: small add for a company called VIEWPOINT. They will send you a free >: catalog with "hundreds" of 3D objects, I called them and they do >: support Imagine objects. They are in UTAH, their number is: >: 1-800-DATASET (1-800-328-2738) Don't know what they charge, but the >: call and catalog is free. > > They charge from $50 the cheapest to $5000 for a full sceleton. >The objects are good, very good but a tad overprised. The Imagine objects >are not joined or grouped without any textures or attributes applied to >them. _____________________________________________________________________ > | | > | Yury German Blue-Knight@bknight.jpr.com | What Mr. Knight forgets to mention here is that ViewPoint also has a giveaway set of 5 of their objects, on Amiga format disks in either LightWave or Imagine formats. These objects may be posted anywhere providing proper credit is given to ViewPoint. I'll be posting them on Portal in the Amiga Zone shortly for our subscribers. (If anyone cares for a long informational file about Portal, just email me and ask for it). Harv harv@cup.portal.com ## Subject: Just a few questions... Date: Sun, 14 Mar 93 7:49:13 PST From: Daryl T. Bartley (net.gods willing, this one will make it to the list!) Just a couple of quick questions, some are kind of old, so excuse me if you've heard it before. I am still -> <- that far away from getting a decent lightning/spark effect. Have any of you acheived a good crawling spark? I can get the thing to crawl, and putting together an object that is shaped like a spark is fine, the main thing I am having problems with is getting a realistic look out of it. I've been dinking around with fog and brightness and various things, but it still doesn't have that 'glow'. I could always add it in in OpalPaint or DCTV or whatever, but I'd rather get it straight out of imagine (not to mention that hand-drawing it becomes a pain quickly). Also, sorry if I'm behind on the Motion Blur chatter, but would an object w/ foggy ends work? Like elongated slightly from its normal size (morph sizes), with a linear fog attribute on both 'ends' of the blur? It seems harder to do, but at least you would be able to control which objects blurred, and when, etc. Okay, third and last: (did I type all that?) I am doing the now-standard flying-through-the-multi-textured-tunnel animations, and I am using the same path that I made the tunnel with as the fly-through path (slightly modified/ rotated). I have a Track object flying down the same path about 5 frames ahead of it, and a light. It seems to like to look at the walls of the tunnel more than 'straight' ahead though. Do I have it spaced too far behind the track? I guess maybe it's just taking the turns too late or something. Anyway, anyone else who has done similar things and could offer some pointers would be appreciated. Oh, also, anyone know of a good cheap LD recorder/editor? (cheap = relative) A t D h V a A n N k C s E, Daryl Bartley dmon@cscihp.ecst.csuchico.edu Addicted to Chrome ## Subject: tunnel flying Date: Sun, 14 Mar 93 12:38:14 EST From: Steve J. Lombardi > > > Okay, third and last: (did I type all that?) I am doing the now-standard > > flying-through-the-multi-textured-tunnel animations, and I am using the same > > path that I made the tunnel with as the fly-through path (slightly modified/ > > rotated). I have a Track object flying down the same path about 5 frames ahead > > of it, and a light. It seems to like to look at the walls of the tunnel more > > than 'straight' ahead though. Do I have it spaced too far behind the track? > > I guess maybe it's just taking the turns too late or something. Anyway, anyone > > else who has done similar things and could offer some pointers would be appreciated. > > > > > Daryl- > I had a similar problem during a similar anim using a similar technique. > Two things I tried that worked better: > > 1. make a copy of your path and modify it slightly at strategic locations > for the track object. > > 2. eliminate the path for the track object and manually position some > key frames for it. a bit more work, especially for a long and involved > path, but it worksd well. > > _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ > | why would he be such a jerk? i know that he doesn't smoke > steve lombardi | drugs. and he doesn't do cocaine. and he doesn't shoot > stlombo@acm.rpi.edu | smack. and he doesn't even drink beer. Why would he be > | such a fu*ker to me? --WEEN > ## Subject: Animation with DCTV-Images Date: Mon, 15 Mar 93 12:45:29 +0100 From: heberle@pcserver.trier.fh-rpl.de (Heberle H.) How I can create Animations with DCTV-Images. I tryed to use ADAM, makeanim and so on, but it won`t work. I dont know what I am doing wrong. Is there anybody outside who knows where I can find more utilities to use DCTV. I own a S-VHS version of DCTV Thanks for answering. looking forward Horst Heberle ## Subject: morphing animated brushmap positions Date: Mon, 15 Mar 1993 01:54:09 -0800 From: Harvey Weinman Greetings fellow Imaginoids, I would really appreciate some help. I've had no problems mapping animation sequences onto objects. (ie. by using the root name of sequence " root.0000 to root.00nn" as the brush name and "00nn" as the max sequence number) Nor have i had problems moving a single image across an object. (ie. by morphing between two copies of the same object, each with the same brush in different positions). However, when I try to move an animation sequence across an object, by combining these techniques, (ie. morphing between two copies of the same object, each mapped with the same animation sequence, but each with a different brush position) Imagine gets confused. It doesn't add the sequence numbers to the root name in the "tween" cells, and reports that it can't find file "root" each time it tries to render a cell. Am I missing something here? Does anyne know what's wrong and how to correct it? or perhaps another approach to achieving the same effect. Thanks Harvey Weinman garr@well.sf.ca.us ## Subject: Archives 31, 32, and 33 available for anonymous ftp Date: 15 Mar 1993 08:10:09 -0700 (MST) From: marvinl@amber.rc.arizona.edu (Marvin Landis) Well I have been waiting to hear about a replacement ftp site for hubcap (didn't someone say they were going to try to get wuarchive to carry the stuff from hubcap), but since nothing has developed and I have been getting several questions about the IML archives, I decided I better make them available on my machine. So, all the IML archives are now available on amber.rc.arizona.edu (128.196.76.26) in the pub/amiga/iml_archives directory. Actually there are 2 directories there (Z and LZH), so just cd to the directory that contains your favored compression scheme and you'll find the appropriate files. Archives 31, 32, and 33 have just recently been added. They contain articles posted between Jan. 6 and Mar. 10, 1993. The new archives have also been sent to The Graphics BBS (file-server@graphics.rent.com), so they should be showing up there soon also. Sorry, but this machine is extremely limited on hard disk space, so I do not have room to put everything on from hubcap, or accept uploads. Hopefully this archive site is just temporary until we find a replacement for hubcap. And for a little while longer I still have my animations, objects, and scenes available on amber also, but they will be going away soon. Grab pub/amiga/INDEX if you are interested in seeing what is available. ---------------------------- Marvin Landis marvinl@amber.rc.arizona.edu ## Subject: Re DCTV animation Date: Mon, 15 Mar 93 14:08:20 +0100 From: tplonka@ii.uj.edu.pl (Tomasz Plonka V rok) Horst Hebere writes: > "... but it won't work. (...) where can I find more utilities ... I own a PAL version of DCTV (software v1.1) and on a disk ( I do not remember which one now, probably 4th ) there is a makeanim.lzh file described shortly in the manual as well. It works perfectly for me. By the way: what is it: "a S-VHS version of DCTV" - DCTV with an encoder or sth similar ? Tomasz ## Subject: Re: Animation with DCTV-Images Date: Mon, 15 Mar 1993 14:00:33 -0700 From: STEELE SHAWN CHARLES Hi, I'm a little lazy, all I do is load the images into DPaint (i.e LOAD image00000.dctv, number of frames: 30 or whatever. Some don't run very fast, but its simple, expecially to preview images. I also sometimes convert my files to 3 bitplane images for faster FPS. shawn ## Subject: Animation with a 'Word' !!!! Date: 12 Mar 93 11:56:22 EST From: dtiberio@xamiga.linet.org (David Tiberio) (Amiga Graphics BBS 516-473-6351) In an article, (Vincent FARGET) > Hi, > > > Is there somebody who can tell me the best way to do the follower > animation : > > > - I want to do a WORD turning around an object. I place an round > close path for my letters. But when I tie my 6th letters to the path, they > have got all the same place during the animation. So we can't read the > Word. > > > So what is the best way to do an animation like that ? The best thing to do is add an extra 6 rames before the animation and add an extra 6 frames after it. Then set it to follow the path, but introduce a new letter at each new fram starting form the beginning until the entire word is done...then the next frame should start the 'real' animation. I have done this many times and it works nicely. -------------------- Via Amiga Graphics BBS (516) 473-6351 -------------------- David Tiberio // Amiga Graphics BBS (516) 473-6351 dtiberio@xamiga.linet.org // NO SUPRA MODEMS --- BY POPULAR REQUEST Long Island, New York \X/ USENET - 3D - Music - Fonts - Pics - Utils -- ## Subject: Re: Sony VCR with "jog/shuttle"... Date: Mon, 15 Mar 93 10:10:42 EST From: Adam Benjamin In a previous life Yury wrote: >Hi smythe (smythe), in <9303110032.AA11783@amtoo.ucsc.edu> on Mar 10 >you wrote: : I've heard a bit about a (new?) Sony VCR with jog/shuttle in the : $450 price range. Apparently with this VCR I could record 10 frames of : picture #1, back up 9 frames, record 10 frames of picture #2, etc... : I've also heard something about a controller that would automate this : process (for the Amiga?). > Well for $450 range you will not get any single frame vtr and what >you describe is very hard to do. I would recomend a good single frame >vtr or send it out to a single frame service. But if you are destined >to do this only 3 VTR's in the $1400 range are good enough for what >you describe. BUZZT. Yes it is a pain to do but it can be done for a lot less than 1400$. The VCR the original poster is refering too is the sony slv696HF and it goes for around 450$, couple it with the transport and you can do all this automatically (not frame accurate but not nearly the price either. I am close to buying either the sony or a Panasonic 4264 which is cheaper but I'm not sure if it has all the features I need. Scope out the latest Amiga Video/Graphics (formerly AVID magazine) in "THE DR. IS IN" column this VCR is mentioned. and the transporter was reviewed in a previous issue. _____________________________________________________________________ | | | Yury German Blue-Knight@bknight.jpr.com | | Blue-Knight Productions GENIE: Blue-Knight | | (718)321-0998 ** Graphic Design and Video Productions ** | |_____________________________________________________________________| ## Subject: Effects Date: Sat, 13 Mar 1993 18:07:28 -0500 (EST) From: DMCCALL@uoft02.utoledo.edu Once again, thanks to all who responded re: my other posts. Now that I have an animation going, I decided to try some of the effects.. Specifically the fireworks. I could have sworn I had an explode effect, but its not in my effects drawer. ;) Oh well... what I am trying to do is have an object start of SOLID then explode using the fireworks.. but all I can get is one that starts of partway into the explosion? Any ideas? Thanks.. Also, are there any effects avail other than what was included with Imagine and Understanding Imagine 2.0? Thanks in advance. -Don ## Subject: Re: Viewtek v 1.04 and more Date: Mon, 15 Mar 93 18:11:02 EST From: Steve J. Lombardi > > Is anyone using the DCTV RGB thing? I wonder if I should buy one now > that the price has dropped to $199 US. I am thinking about possibly > buying a GLock. Is anyone using a Glock? I have had the rgb thing from when it came out. the two biggest advantages are 1) dctv bemoes a regular display mode. no need to flick your monitor into composite mode to view dctv format images. and 2) when used in conjunction with an external genlock you can mix dctv images with live video. this is why I picked up the rgb converter in the first place. I use it with the supergen but I believe any external genlock will work. > > And what is Digital Creations doing with respect to an update of DCTV > paint? Will we as DCTV owners be able to get a deal on upgrading > to Brilliance if they add DCTV support to it? as of the WOC show in toronto in december there was no planned support for dctv in the Brilliance package other than saving images in dctv format. you could paint and animate in brilliance using ham or ham8 as your preview and then savean anim in dctv format if I'm not mistaken. dctv ownersshould be able to get the program direct from DC for 125$. _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ | why would he be such a jerk? i know that he doesn't smoke steve lombardi | drugs. and he doesn't do cocaine. and he doesn't shoot stlombo@acm.rpi.edu | smack. and he doesn't even drink beer. Why would he be | such a fu*ker to me? --WEEN ## Subject: Imagine List Winners FTP Date: Mon, 15 Mar 93 18:55:26 PST From: Daryl T. Bartley I managed to find the winners on amiga.physik.unizh.ch (basically any AmiNet site) in /amiga/pix/trace as IML1-6.lha. Killer stuff. Daryl Bartley dmon@cscihp.ecst.csuchico.edu Goin' down the Tubes P.S. Thanks for the help on the tube flythru...works great! Even managed to get a nice loop. ## Subject: Re: Sony VCR with "jog/shuttle"... Date: Mon, 15 Mar 1993 22:45:45 -0700 From: STEELE SHAWN CHARLES This is an imagine mailing list, why would anyone want a non-frame accurate VCR???. It would be a billion times better to use DCTV and settle for worse pictures played at a consistant rate rather than some jittery animation played at whatever kind of FPS you can trick out of the poor VCR. shawn ## Subject: Problems to view IMAGINE's animation !!! Date: Tue, 16 Mar 93 09:24:46 +0200 From: (Vincent FARGET) Hi everybody, Last week I have make three IMAGINE's animations (ANIM format). That's three differents animations with a WORD turning around. The two first are working perfectly. They have both 50 frames (HAM 320x256). There is only a WORD who turn around, but the rotation is different in the two animation. I can view them by two programs : View (who accept Anim 5 and 6 OP-code animations format) and ShowAnim (who is used with AegisVideoscape3D, I think). All works fine for this two first animations. The third animation is also a WORD animation, but I have put a reflect's sphere at the center of the animation and the WORD is turning around. This is a 50 frames animation (HAM 320x512). When the animation is ready to see, I use View and ShowAnim, but some problems appear : - With ShowAnim I can only see the first frame and then I can't come back to the Shell. The only solution is to RESET the A2000. - With View I can only see the animation one time, after that a GURU appears telling me that there is a : ERROR : #8000 0003 or #8000 0004 at task : xxxxxxxx So my question is : Why the two first animations are working, and the third is not ? I have thought that this problem could be due to my Chip ram. I am not sure but as I have only 1Mo of chip ram .... Thanks in advance for your help. Bye. - FARGET Vincent - ******************************************************************* * AMIGA 2000B Rev 4.4 1 Mo Chip Ram et WB V2.05 * * + Controller 2090 Commodore + HD 42 Mo * ******************************************************************* ## Subject: Anim & Imagine Date: Tue, 16 Mar 1993 10:10:38 -0600 (CST) From: "Cyrus J Kalbrener-1" Ok guys, I can't seem to get Imagine to lock the palette when working in the anim format, and I have nothing to convert the Imagine Images into an anim effectively. I'm sure that I'm not the only one. Any ideas? Cyrus J. Kalbrener ## Subject: Re: Sony VCR with "jog/shuttle"... Date: Tue, 16 Mar 93 10:05:08 EST From: Mark Thompson > It would be a billion times better to use DCTV and settle for > worse pictures played at a consistant rate rather than some jittery > animation played at whatever kind of FPS you can trick out of the poor VCR. Unfortunately it is extremely easy to create animation with frame to frame deltas that are so large that DCTV cannot produce any sort of consistant or smooth playback. This is particularly true during lighting changes and camera moves. %~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~% % ` ' Mark Thompson CONCURRENT COMPUTER % % --==* RADIANT *==-- mark@westford.ccur.com Principal Graphics % % ' Image ` ...!uunet!masscomp!mark Hardware Architect % % Productions (508)392-2480 (603)424-1829 & General Nuisance % % % ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ ## Subject: Imagine & anim solution Date: Tue, 16 Mar 93 17:37:38 +0100 From: tplonka@ii.uj.edu.pl (Tomasz Plonka V rok) Cyrus J. Karlbrener writes: > I can't seem to get Imagine to lock the palette ... Just download ViewTek104.lha from any aminet/ ftp server. You can make anims in the new op-code7 format, and the program is AGA compatible. Have fun! Tomasz ## Subject: Re: Sony VCR with "jog/shuttle"... Date: Tue, 16 Mar 93 14:46:25 GMT From: Imagine@bknight.jpr.com (Yury German) Hi smythe (smythe), in <9303132005.AA04396@am.ucsc.edu> on Mar 13 you wrote: : Also, Don DeCosta posted another message regarding cheap single frame : VCR possibilities to the IML... some of his ideas/products seemed rather : good. Of course, I realize these are not *real* single frame capable : VCRs... just VCRs with jog/shuttle/frame accurate positioning, etc. But Brian neither are these.. the once that I mentioned are SVHS. They are not single frame either but will serve you somewhat if you really want to work. The cheapest Single frame I seen is a used 3/4" that would go for around $2500-2600 for SVHS I guess you can get something new for $4500 or used for about the same 2K+ _____________________________________________________________________ | | | Yury German Blue-Knight@bknight.jpr.com | | Blue-Knight Productions GENIE: Blue-Knight | | (718)321-0998 ** Graphic Design and Video Productions ** | |_____________________________________________________________________| ## Subject: Re: Objects Wanted Date: Tue, 16 Mar 93 14:50:01 GMT From: Imagine@bknight.jpr.com (Yury German) Hi Harv (Harv), in <9303130919.1.2108@cup.portal.com> on Mar 13 you wrote: : What Mr. Knight forgets to mention here is that ViewPoint also has a : giveaway set of 5 of their objects, on Amiga format disks in either : LightWave or Imagine formats. These objects may be posted anywhere : providing proper credit is given to ViewPoint. I'll be posting them : on Portal in the Amiga Zone shortly for our subscribers. (If anyone : cares for a long informational file about Portal, just email me : and ask for it). I know the competition is getting Harv since he has been screaming at anyone who does not belong to portal and opposes his ways. I just wanted to say that the objects have been on GEnie for the longest time already (uploaded by me) and I will try to get them on an FTP site as soon as I can. Wuarchive would be a logical choice for it but they were very buisy in the last few days and I could not get up there. Will let you know when they are posted! _____________________________________________________________________ | | | Yury German Blue-Knight@bknight.jpr.com | | Blue-Knight Productions GENIE: Blue-Knight | | (718)321-0998 ** Graphic Design and Video Productions ** | |_____________________________________________________________________| ## Subject: Re: Imagine & anim solution Date: Tue, 16 Mar 93 23:03:30 PST From: mnemonic@netcom.com (Rev Lebaredian) > > > Cyrus J. Karlbrener writes: > > > I can't seem to get Imagine to lock the palette ... > > Just download ViewTek104.lha from any aminet/ ftp server. > You can make anims in the new op-code7 format, and the program > is AGA compatible. > What you can do is set your movie formatin in the subproject menu to "Imagine" instead of "Anim". When you render the animation it will give you the option of locking the palette. You can then recompile the stills to Anim7 or whatever you need. -- -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- "My moral standing is lying down." mnemonic@netcom.netcom.com ## Subject: Anim7 Date: Wed, 17 Mar 93 09:10:54 CST From: tes@gothamcity.jsc.nasa.gov (Thomas E. Smith) How do you build anim7 animations? Tom Smith ## Subject: Re: Sony VCR with "jog/shuttle"... Date: Wed, 17 Mar 1993 12:16:15 -0700 From: STEELE SHAWN CHARLES Maybe I should have said I'm using am '030. But with such a machine at 15FPS, non-interlaced at 3 bitplanes the delta can't get big enough to cause an inconsistant playback. I've done several things with VISTAPRO and trees and odd coloring that create very large deltas and I haven't had a problem. Of course going interlaced or adding a 4th bit plane does that, but if that's what you're doing Mark, you quoted my message out of context. If it's because you're using a slower machine, then I apologize, I forgot to mention my processor speed. I can see how that could make it slow enough to be inconsistant. (Actually, I usually also play at 12FPS, although I've gone to 15, so maybe try it at 12FPS. I chose 12FPS because its half of film speed (24 FPS) and 1/5 of 60 Fields per Second.) shawn My apologies if I was a little confusing before, but this works for me. (Without timing problems) ## Subject: Transparency Bug workaround Date: Wed, 17 Mar 93 10:44:35 PST From: mad@cup.portal.com I ran into my first Imagine transparency bug last weekend, but I discovered a way around it last night. Let me set the scene: I have a reflective "brass" bell, and I want to fade in some text in front of it. So I created a text object in Imagine, made two copies of it, one set to completely transparent, and the other opaque and colored. I load the transparent version, then morph to the opaque version over a number of frames. The fade up works beautifully, BUT in the first frame, where the text is completely transparent, I get dark reflections of some of the letters on the bell, even though I'm only rendering in Scanline, albeit with global reflection map defined. The workaround I discovered was to extrude the text just a little, and mirror the front onto the back. In this case I extruded to a length of 2, which on text which is >100 wide is imperceptable. And now it renders perfectly transparently. I begin to suspect that Imagine has problems with "single sided" triangles, i.e. that correct attributes are only visible on one side of a given Imagine face. As long as an object is solid in 3 dimensions, Imagine can arrange it so you can only ever see one side of a given face, and can insure that the face you see is the "front", the face with the correct attributes. But with my two dimensional text, the "back" of the faces was being reflected in the bell, or perhaps just blocking the reflection of the global reflection map. If any of you fellow Imagineers has any insight into this I'd love to hear it. In the mean time, at least there is a workaround. It's just too bad that it means more than doubling the number of faces on the transparent object. sigh... Mark Decker mad@cup.portal.com ## Subject: Imagine crashing? Date: Wed, 17 Mar 1993 15:38:29 -0500 From: gt4722a@prism.gatech.edu (James B. Atkins) I am just starting out with Imagine and have set up a simple scene to test out the textures. Problem is that Imagine crashes when it tries to render it! The scene has the ground with the wave texture, two planes acting like walls with the pastella and spots textures. Two cubes in front of the walls with wood and camo textures. On top of one cube is a sphere with no textures, and attributes set to look like water, on the other is a diamond with attributes set to diamond. I know it's not a memory thing as I have tried this on a friends 5meg a2000 and it crashes at exactly the spot - 47.95% complete using trace mode in overscanned low res interlace... At different resolutions it crashes at different percentages like 27% in quarter screen not 47.95. I have rendered all the textures separately to see if they were the problem and they are ok... So does anyone have any ideas? ## Subject: Essence question Date: Wed, 17 Mar 93 20:06:22 EST From: bandy@aplcomm.jhuapl.edu (Mike Bandy) I know I've read this somewhere but can't seem to find it ... I want to use the Essence fractalcolor effect in a looping animation. I set the time to 0.0 at frame 1, 1.0 at frame 10, 0.0 at frame 20. Then it looks like the effect "rolls on then rolls off". What's the trick to making frame 20 match frame 1 without the comin' and goin' appearance. Thanks. Mike -- Mike Bandy bandy@aplcomm.jhuapl.edu Johns Hopkins University / Applied Physics Lab ## Subject: Re: Anim7 Date: Wed, 17 Mar 1993 20:20:22 -0500 From: John J Humpal Thomas E. Smith writes: > > > How do you build anim7 animations? Get the ViewTek104 distribution from one of the aminet sites. In it is a utility for converting other ANIM formats to ANIM7. -- -John John J. Humpal -- johnh@jhunix.hcf.jhu.edu -- short .sig, std. disclaimer ## Subject: Re: Sony VCR with "jog/shuttle"... Date: Wed, 17 Mar 93 17:11:17 EST From: Mark Thompson > Maybe I should have said I'm using am '030. But with such a machine at > 15FPS, non-interlaced at 3 bitplanes the delta can't get big enough to > cause an inconsistant playback. Hi Shawn, Actually I was refering to an accelerated machines also, but I didn't realize you meant 15fps non-interlaced. I have an 040 clocking at 35MHz and it can't maintain 30fps with 3bit video res imagery. In fact, I have animations that can't do better than about 5fps with 3bit video res. Its been a while since I have tried non-interlaced (say 752x240) but even then, I wonder if it is not possible to exceed machine bandwidth limitations at 15fps. If you have no frame to frame compression because of camera motion, this means the system must move about 1MB/s. If I am not mistaken, a 2000 can't maintain that rate regardless of the accelerator used. Is this incorrect? A 3000 might be able to and a 4000 most certainly could. Anyway, thanks for the clarification. %~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~% % ` ' Mark Thompson CONCURRENT COMPUTER % % --==* RADIANT *==-- mark@westford.ccur.com Principal Graphics % % ' Image ` ...!uunet!masscomp!mark Hardware Architect % % Productions (508)392-2480 (603)424-1829 & General Nuisance % % % ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ ## Subject: Re: WOC NYC Date: Wed, 17 Mar 1993 23:44:44 -0500 From: Frank R. Dana Jr. Hey, look! It's Doctor Gandalf... Have you put out anything new lately? I have a lot of your older stuff (Spigot, Ghost Pool), but nothing new... -Frank ## Subject: Re: Transparency Bug workaround Date: Wed, 17 Mar 1993 23:40:04 EST From: Paul Joseph Furio > mad@cup.portal.com writes: >I begin to suspect that Imagine has problems with "single sided" triangles, >i.e. that correct attributes are only visible on one side of a given >Imagine face. As long as an object is solid in 3 dimensions, Imagine can >arrange it so you can only ever see one side of a given face, and can >insure that the face you see is the "front", the face with the correct >attributes. But with my two dimensional text, the "back" of the faces >was being reflected in the bell, or perhaps just blocking the reflection >of the global reflection map. > >If any of you fellow Imagineers has any insight into this I'd love to hear >it. well, the shading and rendering probably incorporates an algorythm that extrapolates from the "inside" out, perhaps to find normals at edges (for smoothing curves. Was "Phong" on?). Thus, without an "inside", i.e. the object is not a closed solid, Imagine get confused and artifacts. By glancing over "Fundamentals of Computer Animation", which I have yet to read and digest, this would seem to be near enough to the case. In case you wondered. -Paul J. Furio ## Subject: Re: Imagine crashing? Date: Thu, 18 Mar 93 01:40:05 -0600 From: rei3@midway.uchicago.edu Well, that sounds like a problem that's shown up with an early version of Imagine 2.0 and transparency. Try rerendering the scene with the transparencies turned off, and see if it will render okay. If so, you'll need to update to a newer revision of 2.0. I don't remember if Impulse will send that out free of charge if you call their tech support, though. tedr rei3@kibmark.uchicago.edu P.S. By the way, I'll add my voice -- where ARE the contest winning entries hiding? I'd like to look at them too. ## Subject: Re: Essence question Date: Thu, 18 Mar 93 02:24:15 -0800 From: spworley@netcom.com (Steve Worley) Mike Bandy writes: > I want to use the Essence fractalcolor effect in a looping animation. > I set the time to 0.0 at frame 1, 1.0 at frame 10, 0.0 at frame 20. > Then it looks like the effect "rolls on then rolls off". What's > the trick to making frame 20 match frame 1 without the comin' and > goin' appearance. When you're normally animating fractal noise, you increase the time parameter by morphing. The inbetween frames will have interpolated time values, and Essence uses that as the indicator of what "time slice" of the texture to use. What you're doing is making two sequential morphs. One has the time going up from 0 to 1.0, the second is from 1.0 to 0.0. So the first morph makes a nice animated fractal noise, and the SECOND morph is the EXACT SAME ANIMATED NOISE PLAYED BACKWARDS. It's like the ping-pong anim mode of DPaint. This is what you're seeing when things are "comin and goin." Unfortunately there's no provision to time cycle the fractal noise in Essence. It is certainly possible to add, but that would add yet Another Parameter to the already crowded list of input values. :-( So how can you make it loop anyway? There are a couple of possible workarounds, but nothing quick and easy. The best trick I can think of is really sneaky. The textures won't cycle in time, but they do have that FADE parameter. [Durn useful!] What you do is set up an animation of fractal noise from time NEGATIVE 2.0 to 0.0. When animated, this will make your pattern play a non-repeating, but smooth, sequence with a jump at the end when you cycle the anim. Negative times are no big deal: Essence isn't fussy and the algorithm can handle it. There's nothing special about the appearance or behavior of the noise in those negative times, it's just a slice out of the same infinite block of texture. Additionally, MORPH THE FADE PARAMETER FROM 1.0 TO 0.0 AT THE SAME TIME. This will make the texture smoothly "gain strength" over time, with nothing visible the first frame and at full visibility at the very end. Now how does this help you make a smooth loop? The trick is to add a SECOND copy of the texture. Morph this one over the same frames with the time values going from 0.0 to POSITIVE 2.0. Also morph the fade parameter from 0 in the first frame to 1.0 in the last: exactly opposite as the first texture. This makes the second copy of the texture fade out over time, exposing the first copy laying underneath which is fading IN at the exact same rate. Whan animated, you get a cross-fade between two animated noise patterns, which are designed to match up at the beginning and end frames. [Watch out for the stuttering problem, though: if the first and last frames are exactly the same, you get a one-frame pause in your animation at the very end. This will affect this morph as well as objects following paths and basically any other keyframing. Don't include the last frame in the anim... See UI 2.0 page 82 for more..] When you animate this texture pair, you'll get pretty much what you're looking for: animated noise which cycles without ping-ponging. It's not elegant to set up, but it's a hack to make the textures do something they weren't designed to do. Anyway, happy cycling.. -Steve spworley@netcom.com ## Subject: Genlocking Brushes onto Objects... Date: Thu, 18 Mar 1993 16:29:08 +0000 (GMT) From: Alex Hi there you Tracers, Just a quicky. Is it possible to 'genlock' brushmaps onto objects with Imagine (v2.0). I want to map a round transfer onto a car I've built and I want to only map the circle, not the whole square brush. How do I do this there must be a way, cos try as I might I can't get the background of the brush to match the objects *:o( Cheers in advance, Alex... ------------------------- #include <.signiture.h> -------------------------- **************************************************************************** Alex Craig. /// CSE Student, Warwick Uni. GB "MayTheSkyNeverFallOnYourHead!" \\\/// esuoj@csv.warwick.ac.uk -Cheif Vitelsatistix \XX/ AMIGA eezer@dcs.warwick.ac.uk **************************************************************************** ## Subject: Anims tips WAS: Sony VCR with... Date: Thu, 18 Mar 93 09:16:19 EST From: Adam Benjamin I did finally buy the sony 696, I will let you(all) know how and if it works out like I hope in a few weeks. I guess my situation is somewhat unique in that I have a 4000 a DCTV and 12Megs of RAM. (I have extra 4000 style RAM for sale too if anyone out there wants it) Size has not been a problem so far, and speed is very seldom a problem. I have settled on 256 color lo-res lace (352x480 I think) and with full screen deltas in anim-5 I get just barely acceptable results. I am going to try anim-7 soon to see if it makes things better. I have made one 4 bit 736x482 DCTV anim and it flies but let me give you some interesting pointers I dicovered by accident. This anim is is of a semi and it's trailer cruising down the road. The whole screen is changing which mean full screen delta right? BZZZT I discovered a neat trick that really helps when large objects are in motion. 1) DONT move the camera! just the slightest movement in the camera almost guarentees a full screen delta. 2) DONT move your light sources, same reason as #1. So what did I do for the semi? Move it in front of the still camera. Even the roadway, I moved it under the truck, instead of panning or moving the camera, and what I noticed as I viewed the DCTV anim from the amiga video (instead of the output from the DCTV) was that large spectral areas of the scene (even on moving parts) did not change from frame to frame. 3) If you want to really see what changes from frame to frame, viewing DCTV anims from the amiga video output really shows you a lot. (gee it doesn't seem that exciting now, I hope I helped someone out there) This anim is being shown in Germany this weekend at some computer show, if you are in that neiborhood. It is being included on a CD-ROM full of Mpeg anims to be sold late spring. (I converted it to 640x480 JPEG images for inclusion on this CD-ROM) If you have some cool anim you would like to get put on this CD-ROM write to: leo@zelator.in-berlin.de Ask him if there is still room and get the details. You won't get paid, but at least your name will get around. ************************************************************ * Adam Benjamin A.Benjamin@mi04.zds.com * * Christian Animator AF987@yfn.ysu.edu * * Disclaimer: Nothing I say means anything to anyone that * * might take it to mean something I didn't! * ## Subject: Re: WOC NYC Date: Thu, 18 Mar 93 10:50:55 EST From: Mark Thompson > So, Mark, shall we have a meeting of the Imagine and/or Lightwave > maillists at the main door at noon again like we did last year? Hopefully, > this time there will be more than just you and me there... > __ _ _ > - Eric J Fleischer,MD - Dr Gandalf \ \ | () | VIRTUAL > \ \| || |__ IMAGE > DrGandalf@cup.portal.com \___||____| LABS Sounds good to me. Attention LightWave and Imagine users. If you plan to attend the World of Commodore in New York City and would like to meet with some of the others on these two lists, hang out by the door inside the entrance at 12 noon on Saturday. For those who don't already know about it, WOC will be held April 2-4 in New York City at Pier 88 of the Passenger Ship Terminal. See ya there. %~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~% % ` ' Mark Thompson CONCURRENT COMPUTER % % --==* RADIANT *==-- mark@westford.ccur.com Principal Graphics % % ' Image ` ...!uunet!masscomp!mark Hardware Architect % % Productions (508)392-2480 (603)424-1829 & General Nuisance % % % ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ ## Subject: Re: WOC NYC Date: Thu, 18 Mar 93 14:52:35 EST From: Mark Thompson Frank R. Dana Jr. writes: > Hey, look! It's Doctor Gandalf... > Have you put out anything new lately? I have a lot of your older > stuff (Spigot, Ghost Pool), but nothing new... Since I haven't seen him fess up to it yet, Eric (Doctor Gandalf) took second place in the Amiga World animation contest. His animation should be on the Amiga World anim tape available at the show. But I imagine that Eric will also bring a copy with him. I look forward to seeing it. %~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~% % ` ' Mark Thompson CONCURRENT COMPUTER % % --==* RADIANT *==-- mark@westford.ccur.com Principal Graphics % % ' Image ` ...!uunet!masscomp!mark Hardware Architect % % Productions (508)392-2480 (603)424-1829 & General Nuisance % % % ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ ## Subject: Objects needed in a big way Date: Thu, 18 Mar 93 17:36:56 -0500 From: Thomas Fedoryak Any information on obtaining the following 3d objects would be greatly appreciated (objects can be in any standard format... dxf, imagine, lightwave, etc.): --modern passenger airplanes, especially a 747-400; --satellites, especially GPS, GLONAS and INMARSAT; --airports, traffic control towers, runways; --satellite ground bases, radar dishes, petri dishes... There's more that will be needed, but the list is big enough for now. Public domain, shareware or cheaply priced objects would be preferable, assuming that they are of decent quality. I already have catalogs from ViewPoint and Acuris, but am only willing to shell out hundreds of dollars as a LAST resort. Hope to hear from you. tom@facl.mcgill.ca ## Subject: Re: Imagine crashing? Date: Wed, 17 Mar 1993 20:27:05 -0500 From: John J Humpal James B. Atkins writes: > [...] > with attributes set to diamond. I know it's not a memory thing as I have > tried this on a friends 5meg a2000 and it crashes at exactly the spot - > 47.95% complete using trace mode in overscanned low res interlace... I suspect you've run into one of the more annoying bugs of Imagine 2.0.0. Do you have two or more shadow-casting lights in your scene? If you do, as soon as a transparent object with any depth is intersected by a ray, Imagine will crash, at least the FP version does, don't know about the integer version. I *think* Impulse will send you a 2.0.1 version (that's Steve Worley's terminology, not Impulse's) if you return the original disk. The only workaround is to never use more than one shadow-casting light in your scenes if you are using transparent objects. -- -John John J. Humpal -- johnh@jhunix.hcf.jhu.edu -- short .sig, std. disclaimer ## Subject: play anims from HD Date: Thu, 18 Mar 93 17:27:24 PST From: RedIs@cup.portal.com To: Steve J. Lombardi Subject: asimVTR >Has anyone used/heard of/ gotton feedback on the asimvtr. I currently >have a 1200 frame animation I would like to output, without hte expense >of single frame recording. this product sounds promising. any >comments are appreciated. >For those who have not heard of this product I'll briefly mention what >I know about it. The asimVTR program should allow anyone with a fast scsi >harddrive to get decent playback of full screen images directly from >a custom harddrive partition. it only costs about 85 bucks! I've heard >that a standard a3000 can do better than 15 FPS with 3 bit dctv images. >An a3000 with the new 8.5 ms hd's from maxtor may do 50 fps. >anyone with any other suggestions for outputing a large animation w/o SFR >should drop a line here. anim format is out of the question. too much >change per frame. Moviemaker isn't out yet. THe DMI setup is a bit >expensive for what it currently does. I'm kind of stuck. anybody?? thanks. Have you tried RTAP yet. Plays anims from the drive also. Not to polished, but it's free.... ********************************************************************** *"I do not see any mention of God in your description of the workings* * of the Universe" (Napoleon) * *"Sire, I have no need of that hypothesis." (Laplace) * ********************************************************************** redis@cup.portal.com (Bill Carey) ## Subject: Re: WOC NYC Date: Thu, 18 Mar 93 19:06:40 PST From: DrGandalf@cup.portal.com >Since I haven't seen him fess up to it yet, Eric (Doctor Gandalf) took >second place in the Amiga World animation contest. His animation should be >on the Amiga World anim tape available at the show. But I imagine that >Eric will also bring a copy with him. I look forward to seeing it. >%~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~% >% ` ' Mark Thompson CONCURRENT COMPUTER % >% --==* RADIANT *==-- mark@westford.ccur.com Principal Graphics % >% ' Image ` ...!uunet!masscomp!mark Hardware Architect % >% Productions (508)392-2480 (603)424-1829 & General Nuisance % >% % > ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Haven't seen you fess up either, Mark, since you won first place in the Amiga World animation contest. I've seen a few frames of Fred Floaty, but I look forward to seeing the whole thing. __ _ _ - Eric J Fleischer,MD - Dr Gandalf \ \ | () | VIRTUAL \ \| || |__ IMAGE DrGandalf@cup.portal.com \___||____| LABS ## Subject: re: Objects needed in a big way Date: Thu, 18 Mar 93 23:23:01 EST From: scott a king > From tom@polestar.facl.mcgill.ca Thu Mar 18 20:59:55 1993 > > Any information on obtaining the following 3d objects > would be greatly appreciated (objects can be in any > standard format... dxf, imagine, lightwave, etc.): > > --modern passenger airplanes, especially a 747-400; > > --satellites, especially GPS, GLONAS and INMARSAT; avalon.chinalake.navy.mil has tons of satellites. They are very huge and supposedly detailed. I got some but haven't yet had time to play with them. I don't think they are in imagine format but they are free. > > --airports, traffic control towers, runways; > > --satellite ground bases, radar dishes, petri dishes... > > There's more that will be needed, but the list is big enough > for now. Public domain, shareware or cheaply priced objects > would be preferable, assuming that they are of decent quality. > I already have catalogs from ViewPoint and Acuris, but > am only willing to shell out hundreds of dollars as a LAST > resort. > > Hope to hear from you. > > tom@facl.mcgill.ca > -- Scott sking@cis.ohio-state.edu ## Subject: Re: Transparency Bug workaround Date: Fri, 19 Mar 1993 00:30:50 -0500 From: Jason B Koszarsky I have this problem and can't get around it. I tried extruding my object but to no avail. What I have made is a gate which has many square holes in it. I'm using a filter map to get the transparency i need but it isn't totally transparent. I also tried dropping the full scale value of the brushmap but that doesn't help either. Jason K. ## Subject: viewtech104 Date: Thu, 18 Mar 93 23:21:51 CST From: tes@gothamcity.jsc.nasa.gov (Thomas E. Smith) I ftp'd the viewteh104.lha file from wuarchives.wustl.edu. When I tried to use makeanim7 to convert an anim5 animation I have, it said: Cannot open Iffparse.library V37+ Does anyone know where I can get this library? Tom the Smith ## Subject: Re: Imagine & anim solution Date: Fri, 19 Mar 1993 02:32:02 -0500 (EST) From: Naked Man I might also recommend Thomas Krehbiel's Rend24 fro converting a list of 24 bit piccies to an OPCODE-5 anim file. Options include pallete locking and Floyd-Steinberg dithering, arbitrary image scaling, output in HAM or grayscale image, wait for images to render, ping pong and loop frames, DCTV or HAME output, very nice, very nice indeed.... Keeping it short and, as usual, NO annoying signature block to wait through.... maybe I should make one. Or should I? wes~ ## Subject: A challenge! Date: Fri, 19 Mar 1993 02:57:36 -0500 (EST) From: Naked Man I ahve an Imagine challenge, and the feat may not even be possible... I'll cut to the chase: I have a friend who wants a car to be rolling into a driveway in his animation fly-by of a house. A cycle object of the car was employed to spin the tires, but my firend desired more. Now, it is true that in 3D animation you will simply make due most of the time, for less than reality, but my friend stubbornly insisted on this particular: that the wheels both spin AND pivot as the car corners. Even though I disagree with the necessity for too many details ( I would simply make the wheels nondescript, give no spin, and pivot them when necessary...), the thought provided me with the curiosity; the question of "well, _can_ it be done? Our progress as thus: The front wheels are linked to null axes at their point of pivot, terminating within the tire, the point from which the tires will 'spin'. We have found no sane way to get them to do both. My thought was that a cycle object be made which has the wheels straight and making one revolution. A second cycle object would be employed which has the spinning wheels turn out some degrees, then back to forward, leading into the 'straightaway' cycle again. I've decided to post this in such a manner as to perhaps inspire other animtors to give it a try. In my attempt to help my friend, I made an EXTREMELY primitive car with block for a body and for extruded discs for wheels. (quick redraws for experimentation, remember!) anyway, any possible ideas warmly appreciated. it's late here in Georgia. see you wes~ ## Subject: Re: Imagine crashing? Date: Fri, 19 Mar 93 03:12:33 PST From: ua197@freenet.victoria.bc.ca (Christopher Stewart) > > I am just starting out with Imagine and have set up a simple scene >to test out the textures. Problem is that Imagine crashes when it tries to >render it! The scene has the ground with the wave texture, two planes acting >like walls with the pastella and spots textures. Two cubes in front of the >walls with wood and camo textures. On top of one cube is a sphere with no >textures, and attributes set to look like water, on the other is a diamond >with attributes set to diamond. I know it's not a memory thing as I have >tried this on a friends 5meg a2000 and it crashes at exactly the spot - >47.95% complete using trace mode in overscanned low res interlace... >At different resolutions it crashes at different percentages like 27% in >quarter screen not 47.95. I have rendered all the textures separately to >see if they were the problem and they are ok... So does anyone have any ideas? > > I wish I could offer a solution but...... If it makes you feel any better, REND24 crashes at frame 15, consistantly. I re-rendered the "Imagine" anim and guess what? No crashing at frame 15. No, it decided to crash at a different frame for this one. I'll be damned if I can tell whether it's Imagine or Rend24........... Could someone tell me the method of animating a 50 frame (mondo delta) 768 x 484 24 bit anim on a 6 meg A4000. I can't seem to get the sucker to work in almost any resolution besides interlaced/overscaned HAM. I'd like to use overscaned 640x400 (up the res to over) 256 col VGA but can't seem to get the resolution right to get an anim compiler to work. Rend24 crashes, AdPro dosen't seem to make anims, Viewtek dosen't seem to play anything correctly, Makeanim involves bogus script work......HELP! I just need a stable method that works! Christopher -- This Way Lies Madness.......... Ua197@freenet.victoria.bc.ca (512k A1000, a TV and one floppy ;-). Fido: 1:340/43, 1:134/92 ## Subject: Re: Gases, nebulas etc. Date: Fri, 19 Mar 93 03:29:47 PST From: ua197@freenet.victoria.bc.ca (Christopher Stewart) > >> Im working on a project that requires either a gasous or fire type effect. >> the scene is set up with a globe floating above a cup. Out of the cup I would >> like fire to be shooting out engulfing the golbe. How do i go about doing >> this? > >There are several ways. Perhaps the simplest is a fractal noise transpancy >mapped cone with fractal noise color of red and yellow. Both are given >an upward velocity and should use texture fall-off. It is similar in many >ways to the description I just gave for creating a mist except with different >parameters and the animated color texture. Oh, and something I forgot to >mention in the other post that applies here as well, enable the double sided >flag. You can also try using multiple cones and even morphing and stretching >them so they wiggle a bit. > >> In dec/jan issue of VTU there is a interview with Jennifer McKnew. Im pretty >> amazed on the renderings she did. How did she do those nebulas or galaxies? >> Any clue.?? > >I haven't asked her yet but I have a pretty good idea. It is hard to tell >from a still rather than seeing the actual animation. It looks like a >cheat (ie. its not actually a 3D modelled entity) but there are a combination >of effects going on there. I made a quick and dirty test anim using my own >method for modeling the nebula. It turned out quite good (especially animated) >but could have used some more tweeking. If I get around to it, I'll upload >a mini test animation. > >> Were can i get a hold of Theology? > >You can't. It hasn't been released yet. Supposedly Nutopia was going to redo >it using some of the latest new features. > >> Will there be any type of textures like essence for imagine? > >Hey, there is only so much I can divulge in one post ;-) >%~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~% >% ` ' Mark Thompson CONCURRENT COMPUTER % >% --==* RADIANT *==-- mark@westford.ccur.com Principal Graphics % >% ' Image ` ...!uunet!masscomp!mark Hardware Architect % >% Productions (508)392-2480 (603)424-1829 & General Nuisance % >% % > ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ > > > Theology is going to be released on a MAC quicktime developers CD rom (talk about distibution channels) last I heard. Someone was going to "post" it to the net. I'll try to look up the message again and tell you where. Now, all you have to do is........convert, convert, convert ;-) -- This Way Lies Madness.......... Ua197@freenet.victoria.bc.ca (512k A1000, a TV and one floppy ;-). Fido: 1:340/43, 1:134/92 ## Subject: All Together Now... Date: Fri, 19 Mar 93 13:56:11 CST From: dave@flip.sp.paramax.com (Dave Wickard) Greetings! :-) Within days of posting a plead for no "subscribe me" and "unsubscribe me" posts to the list, we are seeing them again. HEY! YOU! WAKE UP! LOOK AT ME! :slappity smack: **** DO NOT POST SUBSCRIBE/UNSUBSCRIBE MESSAGES TO THE LIST... IT IS RUDE!***** Use the following: imagine-request@email.sp.paramax.com for these things. I'd hate to have to kill anyone. There, now...down to business. All prizes from the Imagine Mailing List Contest have been shipped as of a week ago. Out the door, on the way. This include acknowledgement from AVID publications of the subscription for Video Toaster User magazine, and also the FAX to Impulse for the 6 prizes that they contributed. I have already gotten back a couple confirmations and thank you's for prizes having been received. For those of you still waiting...it should be very shortly. Just in case some of you haven't seen the Contest winners, honorable mentions, and also some excellent NON-winning entries as well. The files are saved as IML1.LHA thru IML9.LHA. (IML9.LHA is lagging behind the others because I am having a bit of trouble understanding the German (?) Swiss tree structure of the objects/colors/textures. Should be done by next week though. All the prior files are accessible as we speak.) I have uploaded them to Portal's Amiga Zone (don't yell at me guys :-) ) as well as the public ftp site amiga.physik.unizh.ch (130.60.80.80). Naturally, I encourage _every_ commercial service as well as public and private BBS's, and ftp sites to grab the IML files for the enjoyment of your users. As many of you may be aware, Dave Duberman (author of 'The Imagine Companion', editor at Video Toaster User) is still writing for AVG magazine, even though AVID Publications sold that magazine (formerly AVID). I just talked to Dave the other day and he suggested that I send him a description of the Contest and copies of all the winning entries. Hopefully, several of the entries may be featured in an upcoming article in AVG. Keep your eyes open for it, and I will keep you updated. Anyway, that's about it for right now from my corner. Dave Wickard (612) 456-2783 "I always wanted to dance dave@flip.sp.paramax.com the ballet SO badly!" Sam_Malone@cup.portal.com "Looks like you got your wish." Diane and Fraser on "Cheers" ## Subject: Color Bars Date: Sat, 20 Mar 1993 10:59:11 -0500 From: "Mr. Scott Krehbiel" I'm hoping to do some animating for a production company in my area, and I need to record color bars before my animation. I've recently noticed that an animation I created with DCTV really burned badly (the color saturation shot way up) when I recorded it, and I'd want to be able to compensate for this in the TBC when I take it to the production house. Basically, I need to know the proper values for a good color bars screen. I have the order of colors recorded somewhere, but isn't the value or video level of each color supposed to decrease from left to right?? what about the whites and greys at the bottom of the screen?? Or, has anyone created a good DCTV screen of colorbars that they'd release? thanks Scott Krehbiel scott@umbc4.umbc.edu BTW: I do have BarsNTone, which is a great help, but not in DCTV. Great program, though ## Subject: New IFF question Date: Sat, 20 Mar 93 11:52:56 -0500 From: pjfoley@sage.cc.purdue.edu (PJ Foley) I don't need to know this as of yet, but if I have an IFF picture from DPaint AGA (or any AGA-aware program), it saves colors in a 24-bit pallette scheme, right? So, even if I have a 16 color image from a new AGA program, I will need to use a "Full-scale value" of 256 (not 240) in the Brush-mapping things in Imagine, correct? Just something to think about - or at least consider if you are using pictures from an unknown source. COmments? Corrections? PJ 1001001SOS1001001SOS1001001SOS1001001SOS1001001SOS1001001SOS1001001SOS1001001SOS "pigs we get what pigs deserve"- NIN | pjfoley@sage.cc.purdue.edu| This message "Are you talkin' to me? | New year's resolution: | inspected by Did you rub my lamp?" - Genie | Same as last year's. | No. 38 ## Subject: Re: Objects needed in a big way Date: 20 Mar 93 12:07:22 EST From: John Foust / Syndesis Corporation <76004.1763@compuserve.com> (Commercial content ahead!) The Syndesis 3D-ROM Everyone is looking for objects. This summer, Syndesis Corporation will release a CD-ROM call the "Syndesis 3D-ROM". It contains more than 500 public domain 3D objects, all converted to every format we support in our InterChange Plus translation system: LightWave, Imagine, Sculpt, 3D Studio, AutoCAD DXF, Wavefront, etc. This disc solves a marketing problem for us. Very often, we get calls from someone who asks if InterChange Plus can convert Wavefront objects. Yes, we do, but the Wavefront Converter is $395. "Yikes," they scream, "I'm just a starving college kid who grabbed these Wavefront objects off the Internet, I can't spend $400 to convert some objects I got for free." In fact, although the word "Wavefront" trips off everyone's tongue, there aren't that many people who actually own Wavefront software. Their installed base is on the order of "hundreds" not "tens of thousands". Our Wavefront Converter delivers professional quality to those few Amigoids who need it. So we've taken all those same objects that everyone discovers again and again, converted them to all the formats they want, and put them all in one place. The objects are all public domain, period. Do with them what you want. The disc is a great demonstration of our conversion technology. It's also a great answer to all those phone calls we get from people who simply want to convert a few demo objects they downloaded, but don't want to buy an add-on Converter. CD-ROM drives are getting dirt-cheap, rumors say the next Toaster software will ship on CD-ROM, and other companies like Texture City offer great collections of other 3D-useful data in CD-ROM format. A CD-ROM full of 3D objects is certainly faster, less expensive and more convenient than downloading. Look in the right places, and you can add a CD-ROM drive to your Amiga for less than $300. Check out my articles in the March and August 1992 AmigaWorld for more information. Jody Reimer, the sysop of the Studio Amiga BBS has given us a copy of his collection of 3D objects. The China Lake "avalon" Internet site has graciously provided us with a copy of the entire site, and many of these objects will become part of the disc. The entire suite of demo objects from Viewpoint will be part of the disc, including the yet unreleased Siggraph '93 collection. Several other 3D companies such as Mira Imaging have contributed demo objects, too. We've offered disc space to every 3D model company known to mankind. We've also collected dozens of wrappable image maps and texture maps for the disc. In fact, we've got so many objects that we're already looking ahead to Volume II. We are accepting submissions for future discs, on floppy (Amiga, PC or Mac), Syquest, or Exabyte 8mm. Syndesis Corporation PO Box 65 235 South Main St Jefferson, WI 53549 (414) 674-5200 (414) 674-6363 FAX ## Subject: car w spinning wheels. Date: Sat, 20 Mar 93 17:12 EST From: "Robert A. Gougher" To PARHAM: Why dont you make the car itself wheel-less, and make each wheel a cycle ob ject with axis at the same position as the car's. (This way, if you follow a pa th, all objects are in the correct relative position.) Connect each wheel to th e center axis with a couple of null axis, and make them spin. Additionally, lat er in tour cycle program, have each wheel (each wheel is its own cycle object - although you could probably make the four wheels a cycle object and add the car too - but having a diffferent cycle object for each piece is more modular and easy to make changes on) you rotate the wheel, while its spinning, to look as i f the car is turning. Loadd all five (4 wheels + car) into stage, tell them to follow the same path, and with a little tweeking, you should be able to get the wheel turning to match the car turning. I have done a lot of stuff like this for a spaceship which I have been working on. Currently, it have retracting doo rs and landing gear which work on the principles descirbed above. If you want a more detailed description, e-mail me personally. Hope this all ge lps. Good luck. RG ## Subject: CSG Spheres = Memory Suckers? Date: Sun, 21 Mar 93 2:17:15 PST From: Daryl T. Bartley I have an animation using about 35 CSG Sphere primitives, 2 stationary and 33 moving around 3 paths (11 each). None have textures except one, which has a 'spots' texture set to 100% transparency (all the spheres are moving inside of this one, the spots act as 'holes' to see inside). All the others are s simple colors with shiny attributes. One light, non-shadowcasting. Anyway, when I go to render, I only get about 7 spheres? Am I doing something horribly wrong? I am attempting to render this on a 5 meg 25mhz 3000. Would this be possible to do if I replaced the CSG spheres with regular sphere primitives? Thanks in advance, Daryl T. Bartley dmon@cscihp.ecst.csuchico.edu Finding sour notes in the Music of the Spheres P.S. This is a question I probably know the answer to already, but here goes: Is there a way to get Ripple to travel along the surface of a toroidal shape? I have a semi-round tunnel (it connects end to end) and I want to ripple along it as I ly through it. Is there a way to do this? Waves texture with real big params? ## Subject: New IFF Date: Sun, 21 Mar 93 2:20:04 PST From: Daryl T. Bartley *Will* Imagine support ILBMs <24 bits and >HAM? I tried to use an 8bit IFF greyscale from ADPro as an altitude map and it coughed on it. ## Subject: Toaster Date: Sat, 20 Mar 1993 12:07:07 -0500 (EST) From: DMCCALL@uoft02.utoledo.edu Anybody know if the Video Toaster can be put in an A4000? -Don McCallum ## Subject: FTP sites Date: Tue, 02 Mar 1993 23:39:43 -0500 (EST) From: DMCCALL@uoft02.utoledo.edu Anybody know if there are any FTP sites for imagine objects - wraps-etc? Or if there are any good Imagine bbs sites on the net? Thanks -Don ## Subject: Re: Objects needed in a big way Date: Sat, 20 Mar 93 14:14:53 PST From: animato@cup.portal.com Gee, John, didn't you just flame Harv Laser for using the IML to advertise Portal? Seems to me you think you're the only one who can use the mailing list to your benefit. Just Thinking, Keith Veleba animato@cup.portal.com ## Subject: Overscan Imagine? Date: Sat, 20 Mar 93 13:45:20 PST From: dedwards@unssun.scs.unr.edu (Daniel T. Edwards) I just called Impulse and got one guy who said he would answer my question and then he hung up on me. Then I called again and got a guy who said he was the owner of the company. He answered my question as: "just use the program the way we wrote it and don't [mess with it, it just makes things worse.]" I know he didn't tell me the whole truth. He must have been pissed at something, nevertheless he took it out on me. (Unprofessional?) So here is my question: How can I make Imagine use the full resolution of my overscan screen? I saw this done at WOCPasadena. GVP had a special video board that had a resolution of 1600 x 1200 (?). Imagine automaticly recognised that it should take advantage of the increased resolution. Thus, you could build models in full 1600 x 1200 rather than the default 640 x 400. My 1084 will let me see 700 x 462. I want to expand the Imagine page to use the extra resolution. I have heard of PD programs that might perfrom this trick. I figured it might be a tooltype setting (smart!). Without more info I cant even try anything. I would appreciate any info on a "pre-boot" or whatever program that will trick imagine into working as I want it to. No matter what the owner of Impulse thinks is good for me. I paid... I want to play! thanks, ____________________________________________________________ / \ | Amiga 500 James R. Walker | | 2MB Chip dedwards@unssun.scs.unr.edu | | 2MB Fast ____________________________________________| | 60MB Hard / | | 68010 why? |"I don't need any bodyguards." --Jimmy Hoffa| \____________________________________________________________/ ## Subject: RE: Objects needed in a big way Date: Sun, 21 Mar 93 15:19 PST From: Mark_Prenter@mindlink.bc.ca (Mark Prenter) > > hi scott, > I tryed to get an anonymous ftp at avalon.chinalake.navy.mil "that has > tons of satellites" ,you writes. But there is no possibility get an > account to this ftp-server. You must have an user account and password > to this ftp-side because no login is possible. Please give me an answer to > problem. > Thanks > Horst Heberle > heberle@pcserver.trier.fh-rpl-de > I ran into the same problem. I DID get through to them ONCE, but then never again. Did they shut down? Anyway, After doing a lot of searching, I found out that avalon.chinalake.navy.mil is "mirrored" on wuarchive.wustl.edu. I think it's in /graphics/graphics/mirrors/avalon.chinalake.navy.mil or something like that. They do have lots of satellites and other cool stuff, some of them VERY large. BUT, most of the really good stuff is in .OBJ format. Does anyone know how to convert .OBJ to TTDDD? Mark -- Mark_Prenter@mindlink.bc.ca ## Subject: single frame Date: 20 Mar 93 16:33:42 EST From: dyancey@xamiga.linet.org (Darrin Yancey) (Amiga Graphics BBS 516-473-6351) You can single frame an animation using a consumer deck. The deck must have insert edit and some sort of frame advance. It is time consuming but it costs much less than a traditional single frame setup. I use a mitsubishi U67 S-VHS VCR. It has a pre-roll of 2 frames so I record 10 seconds fo frame 1 rewind and postion the tape at the fourth occurance of frame 1. I then insert frame 2 for 10 seconds. The deck preforms a preroll which is exactly 2 frames putting me at the second instance of frame 1, which now becomes frame 2. The resultant animation is truly frame accurate, you are the SFC I use ImageFX to add a frame count to the lower rignt hand corner in a color closer to the background so I can tell more easily when to insert the next frame. Any deck with flying erase heads and video insert should be capable of using this technique. Now if I could only find an ecoder for S-VHS the Imagine/Firecracker24 team should make some awesome animations single framed onto tape. -- via Amiga Graphics BBS (516) 473-6351 -- UUCP xamiga.linet.org ## Subject: Re: New IFF Date: Sun, 21 Mar 93 18:29:10 CST From: mikel@inqmind.bison.mb.ca (Michael Linton) Daryl T. Bartley writes: > *Will* Imagine support ILBMs <24 bits and >HAM? I tried to use an 8bit IFF > greyscale from ADPro as an altitude map and it coughed on it. > > Yes, Imagine does load 24bit files, but will not load 8bit grey images (for some reason). ------------------------------------------------------------------------ "...even the stuff you taught me, has been pushed back into the dark recesses of my mind... Need a candle or two (rendered of course, as my light source) to find all that buried info again..." -- Barb Hall on learning Imagine ## Subject: Re: CSG Spheres = Memory Suckers? Date: Sun, 21 Mar 93 11:32:26 EST From: Steve J. Lombardi > > I have an animation using about 35 CSG Sphere primitives, 2 stationary and > 33 moving around 3 paths (11 each). None have textures except one, which has > a 'spots' texture set to 100% transparency (all the spheres are moving inside > of this one, the spots act as 'holes' to see inside). All the others are s > simple colors with shiny attributes. One light, non-shadowcasting. > > Anyway, when I go to render, I only get about 7 spheres? Am I doing something > horribly wrong? I am attempting to render this on a 5 meg 25mhz 3000. > Are you using trace mode? If so in the action editor for the global actor set the size in frame 1 to 0,0,0. I believe this makes imagine check for the outer bounds of the scene. I had a similar problem a while back. actors were not appearing in trace mode. this fixed it. I don't think it has an effect in scanline but you may want to try it. When you do find a solution be it this or another, please post your findings. I'm curious. thanks. _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ | why would he be such a jerk? i know that he doesn't smoke steve lombardi | drugs. and he doesn't do cocaine. and he doesn't shoot stlombo@acm.rpi.edu | smack. and he doesn't even drink beer. Why would he be | such a fu*ker to me? --WEEN ## Subject: Re:IFFparse Date: Mon, 22 Mar 93 11:44:30 +0100 From: eichhorn@igd.fhg.de Thomas E. Smith wrote: > I ftp'd the viewteh104.lha file from wuarchives.wustl.edu. When I tried to use > makeanim7 to convert an anim5 animation I have, it said: > > Cannot open Iffparse.library V37+ > > Does anyone know where I can get this library? > > Tom the Smith This library comes together with other usefull stuff in a nice package called "Amiga Workbench 2.0" ;-) and is available in a computer shop near you. You lucky guys in the U. S. can already buy WB 2.1, so just do it... Bye Oli __________________________________________________________________________ /// Oliver Eichhorn, CS student at FH Darmstadt /// Fraunhofer Institute Of Computer Graphics, Darmstadt (FhG/IGD) \\\/// eMail:eichhorn@igd.fhg.de, voice: ++49 6151 48200 or ++49 6022 7752 \XX/ "Things are more like they are now than they ever were before" ## Subject: Syndesis CD rom Date: Mon, 22 Mar 93 01:52:17 PST From: leimberger@marbls.enet.dec.com >Gee, John, didn't you just flame Harv Laser for using the IML to advertise >Portal? Seems to me you think you're the only one who can use the mailing >list to your benefit. >Just Thinking, >Keith Veleba >animato@cup.portal.com While johns post had some commercial content(he placed a warning) I was glad to see it. I'd love to get my hands on the disk when it's done, And I will be able to ! I fluffed over the Whole flame thing that was going on so I really can't comment on that. However We have seen product announcements in the past, and I was always glad to get the info. An anouncement that stuff is available on Portal would seem to be ok. Now how do I access these objects thru ftp. If I can't get them without a Portal account then The post was useless in that I and others cannot directly benifit from it. An announcement for a tangable item I can order is of interest, as in the case of the Syndisis CD. It offers something I can use that I otherwise I may not ever see. I used to use People Link in my early Amiga days, but haven't done much in tele comm since then. Some day if I lose net access I will look at Portal as an option. Of course I'd know where to look because it is listed in most Amiga mags. /** Bill Leimberger, Salem N.H. Any ramblings You see here are of my own mind, and not supported by the employer who allows me access to the net **/ ## Subject: A4000 Ready Toaster? Date: Mon, 22 Mar 1993 08:08:19 -0500 (EST) From: DMCCALL@uoft02.utoledo.edu In responce to my last post about A4000 compatability with the toaster I recieved several replies about an A4000 ready version... anybody got a release date on this? -Don McCallum. -Don McCallum. -------------------------------------------------------------------------- Favorite macro : F9 = yell Summon me QUICK! Don't let me DIE!!!!! ^M -------------------------------------------------------------------------- P.S. Every miss your bus to work 'cuz you were reading IML? Sigh.. ## Subject: Re: theology Date: Mon, 22 Mar 93 20:44:41 EST From: Steve J. Lombardi > > > What is it: "Theology" ??? > > Tomasz Plonka > > theology is an animation created in lightwave by Todd Rundgren and company. The first time I saw it I came in somewhere in the middle. the camera was panning and moving through a cathedral. I was standing a pretty good ways from the monitor, perhaps 15-20 feet, and was totally convinced that this was real world video and not a rendering. It didn't matter that the music sucked or that I can't stand Todd R. in general, I sttood in awe! It was very beautiful. for a brief moment Todd was my Hero. Then a video snippet for "Bang on your Drum all day" flashed to mind and I resumed my usual hatred. It's usually shown in the Newtek booth at Trade shows and the like. _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ | why would he be such a jerk? i know that he doesn't smoke steve lombardi | drugs. and he doesn't do cocaine. and he doesn't shoot stlombo@acm.rpi.edu | smack. and he doesn't even drink beer. Why would he be | such a fu*ker to me? --WEEN ## Subject: Xspecs and Imagine Date: 23 Mar 93 11:22:46 CST6CDT From: "Mike Jiang" Hi, Does anyone out there use or have used Xspecs with their Imagine. I just got a pair and couldn't wait to make some animations that just flew off the screen. But when I tried, I was unable to make the object look like it was coming out of the screen no matter how close I put the object to the camera. However, I was able to make the object look like it was way into the screen. My animation was of a spining piramid moving really close to the camera and then really far away from it. The piramid was placed inside a vary long box with the camera looking through the one open end. ------------------------------------------------- | /\ | <-- /__\ --> -0 <- the camera ------------------------------------------------- What I mean by comming out of the screen is if you looked at the cubs demo that came with the Xspecs, those cubes really looked like that they were floating in front of the screen. It didn't seem to do much when I changed the eye seperation in the prefs editor. Can anyone tell me how to do this or if it's possible. Thanks Mike Jiang ---------------------------------------------------------------------- | "Cogito cogito ergo cogito sum." | email==> mjiang@gab.unt.edu | | "I think that I think, | or ij61@vaxb.acs.unt.edu | | therefore I think that I am." | | ---------------------------------------------------------------------- ## Subject: colorbars Date: Tue, 23 Mar 1993 13:26:05 -0500 From: "Mr. Scott Krehbiel" >> Basically, I need to know the proper values for a good color bars screen. >> I have the order of colors recorded somewhere, but isn't the value or video >> level of each color supposed to decrease from left to right?? what about >> the whites and greys at the bottom of the screen?? >> >> Or, has anyone created a good DCTV screen of colorbars that they'd release? >> >> thanks >> Scott Krehbiel >> scott@umbc4.umbc.edu >> >> BTW: I do have BarsNTone, which is a great help, but not in DCTV. >> Great program, though >> >Why not try using a screen grabber on the BarsNTone screen and then >converting it to a DCTV screen. I don't know if this would do the trick >but its worth a try. > >Jeff Well, I did that, and I got some values from the Barsntone program (can't remember the author) that seem pretty good. I made a DCTV colorbars picture, which I'll post somewhere as soon as I verify its accuracy. I'm just curious about the actual standards from which these bars come. For instance, there are two boxes of color, which are labeled as "I" and "V" (I think) on a vectorscope. I've been told that those are the most important values used to "set up" a deck for a particular tape. Those values determine the proper hue setting, which affects the rest of your tape. And, they're some of those mysterious boxes at the bottom of the colorbars screen. Anyone know the proper RGB values, or proper hue number, or any other info I could use for this?? If what I got from Barsntone happens to be a bit off due to the color approximation of 12 bit graphics, it could goof things up. I might end up transporting my Amiga to my internship, setting it up hooked to the switcher, digitizing colorbars, then outputting the same colorbars to a vectorscope to see if I got the hue right, and ....... (and generally annoy my bosses) If anyone knows the proper numbers, please post them... it'd be a big help. Thanks Scott Krehbiel scott@umbc4.umbc.edu ## Subject: Re: viewtech104 Date: Tue, 23 Mar 93 15:30:43 CST From: tes@gothamcity.jsc.nasa.gov (Thomas E. Smith) >Hello Thomas (Thomas E. Smith). On Mar 18, you have written : > >> >>I ftp'd the viewteh104.lha file from wuarchives.wustl.edu. When I tried to use >>makeanim7 to convert an anim5 animation I have, it said: >> >> Cannot open Iffparse.library V37+ >> >>Does anyone know where I can get this library? > > You must get the Workbench 2.0, if you are still WB 1.3. Iffparse is > a 2.0+ only library. > > Sincerely, > -- Philippe I have workbench 2.03. I accidently looked in my LIB: directory for my C compiler for the Iffparse.library. So I do have the library in my LIBS: directory, but I'm still getting the same message: Cannot open Iffparse.library V37+ Is it possible that I have the wrong version since I'm using 2.03 instead of workbench 2.04? Another question: Is there any software that takes a bunch of IFF images and builds an anim7 animation? ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ | Living on Earth may be expensive,|Tom E. Smith | ._________ | | but it includes an annual free |tes@gothamcity.jsc.nasa.gov| |= (0_, \ \ | | trip around the Sun. | | |= |0 ` / | | |--------------------------------------------------------------| |---u----/ | | And no, I don't speak for my company or any other company. | | ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ ## Subject: Re: viewtech104 Date: Tue, 23 Mar 1993 19:01:51 -0500 From: Jason B Koszarsky What are the differences between anim-7 & anim-8 formats? Is there a PD anim-8 viewer/converter with arexx support? Jason K. ## Subject: Re: viewtech104 Date: Tue, 23 Mar 93 18:16:39 CST From: Wayne Haufler Tom E. Smith writes: > Is it possible that I have the wrong version since I'm using 2.03 instead > of workbench 2.04? > I don't think so, as I have run MakeAnim7 and VT without any problem and I don't think I'm as up-to-date as wb 2.04. I'll check. BTW, I converted my small DeltaClipper launch animation to anim7 and it makes a BIG difference in speed. I don't think I'll be desiring single-frame recording capability for some time. :-) > Another question: Is there any software that takes a bunch of IFF images > and builds an anim7 animation? That's what I've been wondering. I don't know about shareware, but I received an upgrade notice for ADPro by ASDG which sounds really good. Oops, I was wrong. ADPro supports Anim8, not 7. And here is what the author of ViewTek says about the difference: >From the ViewTek104.readme file: " I have no intention of supporting ANIM8 as long as there is an infinitely superior ANIM7 format around. You, the animation user, would be wise to petition those who would use ANIM8 to use ANIM7 instead. Unless you *want* a less efficient animation format. 'Nuff said. The included utility MakeAnim7 can be used to convert existing animations (5's or 8's) into the ANIM7 format." But I myself don't know. Some of ADPro's other features may be of interest to some of you, so, to quote their literature (if I may): "Brief Summary of ADPro 2.3 Upgrade Direct reading and writing of Video Toaster Framestore files without requiring that a Video Toaster be present or running. Direct connection of ADPro to paint programs. Undo capability. ANIM support including the high speed ANIM format, ANIM-8 (with viewer) New loaders, savers, and operators Additional ARexx commands making canned applications easier to write More powerful FRED with over 50 pre-written ARexx programs. A new digital image compositor allowing multi-layer animations to be created easily and quickly. A totally new utility, SENTRY, which allows you to automatically process images as they are generated. " More specifically about ANIM: "- High Speed ANIM Support ... The ANIM-8 format was designed by ASDG and is optimized for use on Amigas with 32 bit chip memory. This includes machines such as the A1200, A3000, and A4000. On such machines, playback speeds of ANIM-8 files can be as much as 2.5 times the playback speed of the same animation created in ANIM-5. Also included, is an enhanced version of Michael Hartman's shareware program, View. This version supports the AGA modes as well as ANIM-8. " They also advertised ANIM WORKSHOP by AXIOM SOFTWARE, but it said "* Support for all ANIM(5) animation formats..." and nothing about ANIM-7 or -8. This is not an advertisement. I have yet to even decide to buy it. Sorry about the long post, but I thought I'd try to summarize the issue from different sources. __ \\ /\\ /\\ //_ Wayne A. Haufler [Christian/SW Engineer/XWindows/Amigan] \/--\// \//__ haufler@sweetpea.jsc.nasa.gov McDonnell Douglas-Houston // Hobby: "Computer Animations For Christian Endeavors" ## Subject: iffparse.library V37+ (was Re: viewtech104) Date: Wed, 24 Mar 93 08:14:52 EST From: David Watters > I have workbench 2.03. I accidently looked in my LIB: directory for my C > compiler for the Iffparse.library. So I do have the library in my LIBS: > directory, but I'm still getting the same message: > Cannot open Iffparse.library V37+ > > Is it possible that I have the wrong version since I'm using 2.03 instead > of workbench 2.04? I think so. 2.01 - 2.03 is V36+. OS 2.04 was the beginning of V37+. > Another question: Is there any software that takes a bunch of IFF images > and builds an anim7 animation? I have not played with the viewtech archive yet, but everyone here is saying it comes with 'makeanim7' which more than likely follows in the foot steps of makeanim and does just that, makes and anim(7) out of a bunch of images. It also converts other anim formats (ie. anim8) to an anim7 format if what I have been reading is correct. David Watters -- David R. Watters (watters@cranel.com) Cranel Inc. Development & Engineering "Porsche. The very name is, to many, the last word in sports cars. Any car blessed with these magic seven letters is sure to be the very best. Period!" - Car and Driver, January 1993 ## Subject: makeanim7 Date: Wed, 24 Mar 93 17:51:58 +0100 From: heberle@pcserver.trier.fh-rpl.de (Heberle H.) Hi IML-readers, where can I get makeanim7 from? Is there a ftp-server to download this program? Does it support DCTV-images? I think I wll hear from you. Greetings from Germany to the whole world. Horst Heberle heberle@pcserver.trier.fh-rpl.de ## Subject: Re: viewtek104 Date: Wed, 24 Mar 1993 11:51:27 -0500 From: Udo K Schuermann Errors-to: /dev/null tes@gothamcity.jsc.nasa.gov wrote: > Cannot open Iffparse.library V37+ > Is it possible that I have the wrong version since I'm using 2.03 instead > of workbench 2.04? Unless I am wrong: V36 == 2.0 through 2.03 V37 == 2.04 and 2.05 V38 == 2.1 You need at least 2.04, therefore. > Another question: Is there any software that takes a bunch of IFF images > and builds an anim7 animation? Look for AAP_AAC (or is that AAC_AAP?) on one of the fish disks in the mid 700 range, I think. Works great for me! ._. Udo Schuermann "Until the philosophy which holds one race superior ( ) walrus@wam.umd.edu and another inferior is finally and permanently dis- Enjoying virtual memory credited and abandoned, everywhere is war!" -- BM/HS ## Subject: Re: Xspecs and Imagine Date: Wed, 24 Mar 93 8:47:53 EST From: woovis@jcnpc.cmhnet.org (William V. Swartz) > > Hi, > Does anyone out there use or have used Xspecs with their Imagine. > I just got a pair and couldn't wait to make some animations that > just flew off the screen. But when I tried, I was unable to make the > object look like it was coming out of the screen no matter how close > I put the object to the camera. However, I was able to make the > object look like it was way into the screen. My animation was of a > spining piramid moving really close to the camera and then really far > away from it. The piramid was placed inside a vary long box with the > camera looking through the one open end. > > [stuff deleted] > > Can anyone tell me how to do this or if it's possible. > > > Thanks > > > Mike Jiang I too have been playing with animations for X-Specs and can't seem to get anything to look like it is in front of the screen. All the depth in the world can be had going into the screen. I am wondering if there is a distance algorythm that determines which plane things are on: in, on, or in front of the monitor plane. I have tried flying things from 'way in' to 'way out' and even tried tracking the camera to no avail. I have just started toying with camera 'size' in an attempt to discover how that relates to depth of field and lens type, and to see if that has any effect on perceived depth. Mebbe there's a place for you to start too. I'd be interested in your or anyone else's thoughts here as this has been a puzzler for some time! // \X/ -BiL- woovis@jcnpc.cmhnet.org (See my 'Imagine'-ary signature below) ## Subject: X-Specs... Beyond The Screen Date: Wed, 24 Mar 93 23:45:54 PST From: DonD@cup.portal.com > I too have been playing with animations for X-Specs and can't seem to >get anything to look like it is in front of the screen. All the depth in >the world can be had going into the screen. > >\X/ -BiL- It is my Expert 3D-Vision Opinion(tm) that 3D does not work on TV (or computer monitors) because of the bezel, the bezel gives you a real point of reference and your eyes are no longer fooled. In a movie theater the room is dark and the only objects entering your field of vision are coming from the movie. That's why in a 3D movie when you reach out to touch something floating in front of you your hand doesn't pass through it, instead the object appears to move back, you hand provides a real point of reference and the illusion is spoiled. I would be interested in knowing if you get a better 3D effect viewing a picture with a black background viewed in a dark room. Don DeCosta DonD@cup.portal.com ## Subject: Re: X-Specs... Beyond The Screen Date: Thu, 25 Mar 93 08:42:31 CST From: tes@gothamcity.jsc.nasa.gov (Thomas E. Smith) > I too have been playing with animations for X-Specs and can't seem to >get anything to look like it is in front of the screen. All the depth in >the world can be had going into the screen. > >\X/ -BiL- What happens if you set up two rods, or something like that, so they go from in front of you, to behind you, i.e.: | | | | | | | | | * | | | Where the * is the camera looking towards the top of the page. It would seem that the rods would _have_ to appear to come out of the screen. Unless the X-specs give you the illusion of being in the screen :) Tom ## Subject: Re: X-Specs... Beyond The Screen Date: 25 Mar 93 09:46:51 CST6CDT From: "Mike Jiang" > > I too have been playing with animations for X-Specs and can't seem to > >get anything to look like it is in front of the screen. All the depth in > >the world can be had going into the screen. > > > >\X/ -BiL- > > It is my Expert 3D-Vision Opinion(tm) that 3D does not work on TV (or computer > monitors) because of the bezel, the bezel gives you a real point of reference > and your eyes are no longer fooled. In a movie theater the room is dark and > the only objects entering your field of vision are coming from the movie. > That's why in a 3D movie when you reach out to touch something floating in > front of you your hand doesn't pass through it, instead the object appears > to move back, you hand provides a real point of reference and the illusion > is spoiled. But the Xspecs came with a demo called cubes which had 2 rotating cubes moving in and out of the screen inside a long box. You are watching form the open end of the box. And they REALLY look like they're floating in front of the screen. > I would be interested in knowing if you get a better 3D effect viewing a > picture with a black background viewed in a dark room. I'll try this and let you know. Mike Jiang ---------------------------------------------------------------------- | "Cogito cogito ergo cogito sum." | email==> mjiang@gab.unt.edu | | "I think that I think, | or ij61@vaxb.acs.unt.edu | | therefore I think that I am." | | ---------------------------------------------------------------------- ## Subject: X-Specs and "Beyond the Screen" Date: Thu, 25 Mar 1993 11:27:40 EST From: Paul Joseph Furio Much to the chagrin of the x-specs users, it is most likely not possible to produce stills or animations where things "extrude" from the screen. It has nothing to do with the brightness of the room or the distance between the "eyes". Imagine takes the camera to be on the plane of the scren surface. All images may extend into the screen, i.e. in fron of the camera, but the closer an object gets to the camera, the closer it will appear to the screen. Objects behind the camera will not render "out of the screen" because they will not have any light rays hitting the "optics" of the camera. Thus, the best you can do is to have objects disappear into the screen. Of course, the only way around this is rather limited, and would not lend itself well to 3D scenes. If one reverses the images (right eye for left and vice versa), the image will appear to be in front of the screen rather than behind it. Of course, all other visual cues will also be backwards (spheres will appear as bowls, etc...) But if you can mess with this, it should work. Perhaps Imagine 4.0 should have a user definable focal plane just for true 3D images? -Paul J. Furio furiop@rpi.edu ## Subject: Anim-7 Date: 25 Mar 1993 06:25:51 -1000 From: "Jeff Wahaus, CAPS, ATL, 404-640-3529" All, I just tried out the new Anim-7 animation file format on a full screen 45 frame 320x400 HAM animation I made with Imagine. The performance boost was great! On my 22MHz 68030/882 Amiga 2000 I was getting about 10 frames per second using the old ANIM format. This animation had huge frame deltas. After getting ViewTek v1.04A and re-compiling the animation into ANIM7 format the playback speed was boosted to around 25-30 frames per second. The file size wasn't effected too much. The original ANIM format file was 4.0MB and converting to the ANIM7 format the file became 4.2MB in size. If you havn't tried ANIM7 yet, try it, you'll like it. -Jeff Wahaus- ========================================================================= jeff_w1@verifone.com Software Artist Amiga 2000/030 - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - The best code optimizer is in your head. I always want more for less. ========================================================================= ## Subject: Re: X-Specs... Beyond The Screen Date: Thu, 25 Mar 93 12:52:55 CST From: setzer@ssd.comm.mot.com (Thomas Setzer) > I too have been playing with animations for X-Specs and can't seem to >get anything to look like it is in front of the screen. All the depth in >the world can be had going into the screen. > Maybe it has something to do with the way Imagine is generating the images. Does anything else generate images for use with X-Specs? What was the demo generated with? Did they(people who make X-specs) say? Why not call Impulse(ha ha)? Maybe they will be of help(hahahahahahahaha). Oh my sides hurt. That was funny. Tom Setzer setzer@ssd.comm.mot.com "And of course, I'm a genius, so people are naturally drawn to my fiery intellect. Their admiration overwhelms their envy!" - Calvin ## Subject: Global Reflection Date: Thu, 25 Mar 93 17:20:50 EST From: Steve J. Lombardi HELP. i have a scene set up consisting of 3 actors and a global map for reflection. There is also a ground object. when rendered in scanline the ground and global map reflect nicely in the intended objects. NOW THE PROBLEM. I wanted to put a "dome" over the scene, like a dome over a city. I wanted the dome to also reflect the global map and ground. I used a sphere primitive, sliced it in half, and gave it very chrome like attributes. I placed it over the other actors and rendered. the dome only reflected the ground, not the global map. when I moved the camera outside the dome for a test I could then see the ground AND the global map! WHY CAN'T I SEE THE GLOBAL MAP INSIDE THE DOME. _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ | why would he be such a jerk? i know that he doesn't smoke steve lombardi | drugs. and he doesn't do cocaine. and he doesn't shoot stlombo@acm.rpi.edu | smack. and he doesn't even drink beer. Why would he be | such a fu*ker to me? --WEEN ## Subject: Imagine, DCTV, and ViewTek v1.04 Date: 25 Mar 93 16:58:21 CST6CDT From: "Mike Jiang" Hi, I just got a copy of viewtek and changed some of my Imagine anims to Anim7. They play much faster. But when I tried it with a 30 frame quarterscreen DCTV anim there was no DCTV output. The RGB screen looked normal and the animation was centered. I remember someone saying on this list that it had to do with Viewtek chopping off the DCTV data when there was overscan. Is this the problem or do I have no idea what I'm talking about. Mike Jiang ---------------------------------------------------------------------- | "Cogito cogito ergo cogito sum." | email==> mjiang@gab.unt.edu | | "I think that I think, | or ij61@vaxb.acs.unt.edu | | therefore I think that I am." | | ---------------------------------------------------------------------- ## Subject: X-Specs and "Beyond the Screen" Date: 25 Mar 93 14:51 -0700 From: Oliver Seiler With all this talk about not being able to get the X-Specs to work with Imagine, I have to say, Does Imagine support the X-Specs? If it did, I didn't know, although if it doesn't I can see why it won't work because of the way in which X-Specs produces it's effects... I would think it would be possible if you produce two animations of the same scene, but have the camera shifted over the distance that you want the stereo effect to have (ie. like having an animation for each eye)... Then (somehow) merge the two animations and get them to be displayed at the 30fps frame rate that the X-Specs use to produce it's effects... -Oliver | Oliver Seiler + Erisian Development Group + Amiga Developer + | +-------------Reality by the Slice--------------+ | c1a192@rick.cs.ubc.ca | (604) 683-5364 | | oseiler@nyx.cs.du.edu | POB 3547, MPO, Vancouver, BC, CANADA V6B 3Y6 | ## Subject: Re: X-Specs... Beyond The Screen Date: Thu, 25 Mar 1993 15:15:39 -0700 From: STEELE SHAWN CHARLES Hmmm... I'm not an xpert on X-Specs, but I have used simple red/blue 3D glasses successfully on an Amiga. (Not using imagine). I was able to get objects to appear "in front" of the plane of the screen and "behind" that plane. Objects "in front" of the screen make your eyes look cross-eyed at the screen (which is difficult to trick them to do.) I think that the small size of the monitor and the distance one is from the monitor contribute to the problem. With a movie screen everything is more out towards the infinity focal length and your eyes are more able to cope with the objects being in the wrong places. Up close your eyes don't want to be tricked as much, The focusing appears more precise and more tied in with the direction one's eyes are pointing. Maybe try a projection monitor (if you can find one.) steele@ucsu.colorado.edu ## Subject: Anim Problem - Help! Date: Fri, 26 Mar 93 0:48:33 CST From: Evan Kirchhoff I just spent about 20 hours rendering 26 frames in ILBM-12 format, but when I highlight all the frames and select "Make", I can't get an animation (I've selected ANIM format, and the frames are 320 * 400 HAM and they display perfectly well with the AmigaDos "Display" program). All that happens is that the Amiga labours away for half an hour, giving all the usual feedback ("displaying pic.0007", etc.), but at the end of the process, it has only created a single file called "anim" that is a few K larger than pic.0001 (and looks _exactly_ the same). First of all, shouldn't Imagine create an "anim" drawer in the subproject? I've never tried rendering an "ANIM" anim before, but I've rendered the above animation in RGBN/Imagine format and it worked perfectly well, giving me an "anim" drawer with "anim.0001", "anim.0002" files. Why should the change to IFF/ANIM format mess things up? -- Evan K.